Ma Yu Liang push hands

[Dr.Rob]

I just watched this then I noticed the ef ref. in the corner...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_gmMqzf ... ure=rec-r2

[ShortFormMike]

Guess newtype didn't keep his promise to take down this clip, posted in 2006.

why would someone take down this wonderful clip? this is by far the best demonstration of tuishou that exists on the internet.

[stan baker]

why is something fake so wonderful.

stan

[Josealb]

Mike...The fall at 2:02...could you explain what happens? what makes the guy fall?

If not Mike, any Wu expert?

Nick C?

[ShortFormMike]

if the guy was standing a few feet away from ma i would say it is fake. but since i've seen a much lesser expert do more or less the same thing to me (a qi athiest) when i was that close, i don't doubt it one bit.

when it happened to me i knew he was playing w/ my reflexes. that's all. nothing mystical about it.

as for the rest of it, if you think that is fake, go visit henry wang. if he can't do the same thing to you, please send me a video of it and i'll pay you whatever you spent to see him. and henry has WAY less experience than ma yueliang.

ma yueliang reached the acme of taiji. anyone who doubts this... well i guess nothing can be done for you.

[Josealb]

Ok...so..maybe im thick headed...but, what was it he did at 2:02 again? What exactly made him fall?

[Josealb]

..and at 3:35? Sorry if im too curious. I dont practice Wu wtyle.

[Nick C]

Master Ma was recognised as a fantastic Martial Artist, and able to use Tai Chi, and he took a number of challenges right through to his 90's. However please remember this video is a DEMO - with cooperative students. His PHs with his son I think is a better demonstration of his skill with resistance / someone that is trying.

While I definitely think some students 'demonstrate' more than others, the one thing I have always admired about Master Ma is he always has contact with them, is always moving that contact, and the other hand is almost always in a position to deliver. In the case of 2:02, I find it interesting after than bit he asked for another student to come up to continue the demo.

[Josealb]

I understand cooperation because i have a few aikido friends...but...this seems a bit different. Ma just stands there facing his palm to the student, without contact, and the guy tumbles.

So, what you mean is that this is meant as a demo in cooperation? Where both agree on the cause and effect of things? I thought skill alone would suffice to impress people, when enough skill is owned.

[Nick C]

So, what you mean is that this is meant as a demo in cooperation? Where both agree on the cause and effect of things? I thought skill alone would suffice to impress people, when enough skill is owned.

No. There is no agreement up front. Basically the student would do something, and Ma would react, and the student would not resist (ie they would not try to change, use strength to stop etc etc). So they will continue to do what ever they were doing generally. This shows an intercept (which is normally a fast small thing that 90% of viewers would miss) as a longer action that is clearly identifiable as such.

In 2:02, you should look at Ma's left hand by the way, which is on the students right shoulder. The right hand creates the desire to follow it as a counterpoint. There is an effect that happens which even kids can demonstrate when they hold a hand out and someone goes to grab it, and as they are almost there, the hand is pulled away - but not too fast, so the person 'follows' the hand and falls forward - without touching it. It is the left hand that finally pushes the student away, with the right hand ready to deliver to his face if needed.

[ShortFormMike]

..and at 3:35? Sorry if im too curious. I dont practice Wu wtyle.

ever done ph w/ someone that was above average even? how do you think someone is uprooted with less force hitting them than they weigh? that would defy physics wouldn't it but most people here have had that happen to them many many times. indeed it would defy physics were it not for our nervous system.

what makes you flinch when a rock cracks your windshield on the freeway? certainly the rock did not touch you. is that unexplainable?

if you ever get to work w/ someone who looks like their defying physics like in MYL's video, you'll see that they are mostly just coming in under our nervous system's radar. read any of Ma's interviews and you'll see he did not believe in any kong jin b.s.

Ma did these type of demos once a month for about the last 20 years of his life IIRC (cali g you know?).

[Josealb]

The right hand creates the desire to follow it as a counterpoint. There is an effect that happens which even kids can demonstrate when they hold a hand out and someone goes to grab it, and as they are almost there, the hand is pulled away

Funny, because the student was actively trying to avoid both hands, and he finally "lost" his balance when Ma's left was not touching him anymore.

I guess im one of those 90%. Anyone else in the 90% with me?

[Josealb]

Only thing that might defy physics is someone levitating. Other than that, quality internal mechanics are all about quality physics.

You might mean a psychological component? that might explain the students suggestion to fall. But physics, it should always be there.

[Nick C]

Master Ma publicly stated on many occasions he did not believe in any 'magic' - no touch stuff. Everything in Tai Chi was bound in biomechanics - and with the example of going to grab something thats not there - physiological reactions. He performed many demonstrations such as this. But more importantly he took on challengers even into his 90's - people who did not believe in his skill and ability. In all instances that I have ever heard of each person came away in awe of Ma, and his level of ability.

Nothing he did defied physics. Timing however is essential. Uprooting and pushing someone away where they are flying and you have seemingly used no effort is possible. It relies on that person about to 'fall' in that direction, right at the peak of losing balance, and there own body wants to fly out there, and all it takes is a well delivered 'nudge' (which by the way I think he does with his left hand on the guys right shoulder just before he flies off).

This can all actually be seen in things like 'Americas funniest home videos' - where the 'Mom' is carrying something, just loses there feet, and then in an effort to re balance 'run' as they fall down eventually smacking their face on the ground. They have picked up speed and gone quite a distance in that move - well beyond the strength of the original force.

[Josealb]

Ill try and look at America's Funniest Home Videos differently now. Thanks for explaining.