Taiwan's Lion King

[.Q.]

Interesting documentary that mentioned Taiwan's Lion King in this episode. Does anyone know whether the old Korean professional wrestling circuit are actual competitions or fake like WWF? This huge dude is 80 years old in the documentary and he claimed he's got a good foundation because of his internal training in Xingyi & Bagua! Anyone knows his lineage? I'm surprised I couldn't even find information on his school even though the documentary mentioned he teaches in Taipei county.

[Andy_S]

.Q:

The old Korean pro-rassling circuit was a pro as it got: All show, no shoot. As is the case with other MMA peeps around the world, most of the successful Koreans doing MMA source their training from boxing/MT/judo/BJJ/amateur wrestling, rather than from 'traditional' MA. (The clip seems to incidate the same for Taiwan, albeit they have added TKD kicking to the mix)

Interestingly, one of the Korean strongmen/rasslers from the '80s has mixed his style with some MA and teaches it as an MA (I have seen the guy on TV), but none of his students have had any success in Korea's increasingly active MMA scene, AFAIK. There again I have respect for him - as for this Taiwanese monster - in that he is still strong, still fit and still training.

BTW, who was the guy in grey PJs at the end? Doing some sweet fajin. Oh, and nice doc clip, keep em coming. (Tips hat)

[C.J.Wang]

I've actually passed by his school several times in Hsin-Chuang, Taipei county. He was a Judo legend in his youth and a well-known competitor. I am also pretty sure that he learned Bagua and Xingyi from Zhang Zhun-Feng, or Master Zhang's students.

The guy in grey is Master Wang Jin-Fa, a good friend of my Bagua teacher. Unfortunately Master Wang passed away in June due to cancer.

[Andy_S]

CJ:

Too bad to hear about Wang Jin-fa. What MA is that he is doing?

[C.J.Wang]

CJ:

Too bad to hear about Wang Jin-fa. What MA is that he is doing?

He was the inheritor of a secret society in Taiwan that dates back to the beginning of Ching Dynasty in the 17th century that once aimed to overthrow the Ching and revive the Ming. The style that he practices is a mix of various southern styles passed down through the generations for centuries by soldiers of the late Ming and early Ching Dynasties who had immigrated to Taiwan. It's an interesting system that includes a variety of weapon training, battle formation, and empty-hand combat.

[JessOBrien]

CJ that's very cool, thanks for the inside scoop. Would you be wiling to translate what the Lion King is saying about Ba Gua and Xing Yi? I heard once that one of Zhang Zhun-Feng's students was a Judo champ, perhaps this is the same guy?

Thanks,

Jess O

[Andy_S]

CJ:

Thanks for that. What I liked about Wang was that while it was clearly a southern style he was doing, his fajing reminded me a lot of northern IMA. However, what you say about his background is even more fascinating.

That the old proto-Triad systems are still around in some shape or form is a revelation. The 'battle formation' training would be very interesting from a military history perspective as would the weapons training, which would, presumably, be battle-worthy stuff, rather than the performance-oriented, application-free material so many systems train now.

If you come across any more info on this group - now that the Qing is long overthrown, I assume they are no longer particularly secretive? - I would be very interested to see/read it.

[.Q.]

.Q:

The old Korean pro-rassling circuit was a pro as it got: All show, no shoot. As is the case with other MMA peeps around the world, most of the successful Koreans doing MMA source their training from boxing/MT/judo/BJJ/amateur wrestling, rather than from 'traditional' MA. (The clip seems to incidate the same for Taiwan, albeit they have added TKD kicking to the mix)

Interestingly, one of the Korean strongmen/rasslers from the '80s has mixed his style with some MA and teaches it as an MA (I have seen the guy on TV), but none of his students have had any success in Korea's increasingly active MMA scene, AFAIK. There again I have respect for him - as for this Taiwanese monster - in that he is still strong, still fit and still training.

BTW, who was the guy in grey PJs at the end? Doing some sweet fajin. Oh, and nice doc clip, keep em coming. (Tips hat)

Thanks for the info. It seems a bit odd though as my coworker said that the old Japanese wrestling stuff is more "real" (the Lion King started in Korea and ended up in Japan after being invited by 豬木 (or was it 馬場?). Also he mentioned he won the championship in Korea 27 years ago. I can't imagine using the term 'winning' if it was just a show, though I wouldn't be too surprised either.

[Andy_S]

Q:

Believe, me, Korean pro rasslin was show - and pretty much everything I have seen of its ilk in Japan is also show (but more so). Does your coworker actually have a combative background? He may be talking about Pancrasse, which is an MMA format that grew out of pro-rasslin.

If he was talking about ssireum (traditional Korean stand up rasslin) or Judo, then fair enough: that is actual sport combat.

[.Q.]

Q:

Believe, me, Korean pro rasslin was show - and pretty much everything I have seen of its ilk in Japan is also show (but more so). Does your coworker actually have a combative background? He may be talking about Pancrasse, which is an MMA format that grew out of pro-rasslin.

If he was talking about ssireum (traditional Korean stand up rasslin) or Judo, then fair enough: that is actual sport combat.

Nah, he doesn't have an MA background. I was not sure whether it was show or not to begin with.

[C.J.Wang]

In the video, it metnions that he won the heavyweight championship in an international Judo match in Switzerland in 1973 before winning the wrestling event in Korea.

I just did a google on him and realized that he's actually 71 years old. Amazing

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/kenatseng520/11483154

Picture taken in Nov. 2007

[.Q.]

In the video, it metnions that he won the heavyweight championship in an international Judo match in Switzerland in 1973 before winning the wrestling event in Korea.

I just did a google on him and realized that he's actually 71 years old. Amazing

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/kenatseng520/11483154

Picture taken in Nov. 2007

Your link said he's 80 though. Did you find a different source that mentions his actual age?

[C.J.Wang]

I believe the age provided on that web page is incorrect. Other sources point out that he should be 71 this year. Regardless of the 10 year difference, he's in pretty darn good shape!

[.Q.]

Ok. Pretty odd that they can get the interviewee's age wrong, but the documentary video got the pronunciation of the name wrong too so I'm not too surprised.