Yiquan jianwu dance by Han Xingqiao

[dacheng]

Han Xingqiao at age 75

[Strange]

fantastic!!!

[Overlord]

this is awesome........omg.....
That is martial art!!
Looks like just 30 something.

Over

[C.J.Wang]

I am in awe. There are many so-called masters half his age who can't move half as well as he does.

[I-mon]

Wicked. 75 years old....

[Strange]

according to wang's daughter, wxz only taught jianwu to han xingqiao... i think the vid clearly shows why

[Chanchu]

Great Kung Fu!

[dacheng]

according to wang's daughter, wxz only taught jianwu to han xingqiao... i think the vid clearly shows why

Maybe the only one to whom Wang taught jianwu as he was himself taught by certain Huang Muqiao (edited, correcting name), which was based on sixiang - four manifestations. This was some kind of external addition to yiquan. While others practiced jianwu rather as something emerging naturally from yiquan practice. They could see Wang performing jianwu, but he didn't teach them 4 manifestations forms, insisting, that they should develop their jianwu by themselves. Later Wang wrote that he wanted to test their abilities, check who of them will be able to achieve that by themselves, without teaching them those specific forms.

Additionally, it's possible that Han Xingqiao's jianwu became also influenced by liuhebafa, which he learned from Wu Yihui.

[Strange]

correct me if i'm wrong. as i understand it, yq teaching really have no fixed forms as wang believed that they numb the muscles and tendons; and concentration on forms essentially moved one further and further away from real martial abilities.

begging yr pardon, i feel what you say about jianwu "emerging naturally" from their practice is slightly misleading. i think this gives ppl the idea that if they practice long and hard enough, they will be able to do it. my belief is that the practitioner has to have, not only intelligence, but a special quality in within him to perform the manifestations in jianwu.

cheers

[Wanderingdragon]

I have long believed that Yiquan is a manifestation of dilligent practice, as all technique becomes inherent and the myriad techniques become one , and ultimately the emptiness. This dance to me is every technique being any technique, able to manifest at any instant, and this is to me the reality of Yiquan, it cannot be taught as an art of itself. As has been stated the practitioner must have the intellect to understand it, the skill to develop it, and the experience to apply it.

[dacheng]

I'll try to explain this once more:

Wang Xiangzhai learned jianwu from Huang Muqiao, and this jianwu originally was something separate and different from yiquan. It was kind of free, improvised dance but based on four specific ways of moving which Huang Muqiao taught.

It is possible that Han Xingqiao was the only one who learned from Wang this Huang Muqiao's jianwu method.

However most of Wang's students didn't learn it this way, but it was introduced to them as next stage of progress in yiquan, based on their yiquan training, and not as method external to yiquan.

Edited - correcting name. According to Wang Xiangzhai's text it was Huang Muqiao, not Han Muxia.

[C.J.Wang]

It's interesting knowing that jianwu came from Han Muxia, who was a Xingyi/Bagua master. In our Bagua lineage there are some free-style exercises used to build agility and reflexes that resemble jianwu.

[Josealb]

Hmm....very interesting....

So, correct me if im wrong. WXZ encouraged his students to develop their own yiquan training into a sort of personal Jianwu, using only their yiquan.
Meaning that higher yiquan skill levels should be expressed in the same free form, improvised type of movement as the Jianwu martial dance of Han Muxia, a Xingyiquan guy.

Is this the case?

[dacheng]

I just checked that in "Zhuang gong yu si xing" (桩功与四形) Wang Xiangzhai himself says about Huang Muqiao 黄慕樵, not Han Muxia (so it might be some mistake in some sources)。

Anyway Wang Xiangzhai himself says that jianwu was kind of dance based on martial movements, which was popular during Sui and Tang dynasties, practiced not only by warriors, but also artists, and later was lost. According to Wang Huang Muqiao used his martial arts expertise and analyzed some paintings from the walls in Dunhuang, creating some postures and movements of his jianwu.

And Wang Xiangzhai himself says that he taught it to students, but not many more than 10 of them got its subtleties.

[dacheng]

Anyway, more or less: first there was jianwu as an external addition, later jianwu became something integrated into yiquan as expression of the highest level of yiquan practice. While still a lot is not completely certain, various accounts, various opinions - compare Wang's daugter talking about Wang teaching jianwu only to Han Xingqiao, while Wang himself wrote about more then 10 who got its subtleties (while he taught it to more)...