Jimmy & Doug vs. Wing Chun

[SimonMW]

That programme showed some good stuff. As a Wing Chun practitioner I am glad it showed this rubbish. It showed absolutely EVERYTHING that is wrong with 99% of modern Wing Chun practice. People who don't understand fighting trying to apply what they think is Wing Chun theory. The two Americans could have creamed any of the Wing Chun guys in this programme if they weren't restricted by the silly rules.

It is no wonder that Wing Chun has such a rubbish reputation though given what this programme shows. Unfortunately all we saw was some Chinese guys ploughing in with straight punches. No angling, no root, no nothing. The trouble with Wing Chun is that because of its method it either attracts 'braniacs' who go too much into theory but who have no experience or knowledge of real fighting. Or it attracts oafs who muscle their way in.

I quite often look through YouTube for Wing Chun clips. Without exception they are all utter rubbish. The only exception I have seen is one of Wong Shun Leung's students a few pages back in these forums.

[SimonMW]

Unless the WC man gets in and bridges immediately to the point where he can dominate the centerline, chances are, things will go against him.

Not necessarily. It all depends. If you think of Wing Chun in the usual rigid blasting forward variation, then yes. But really you should be able to use angling and be totally respnsive to what happens. One trouble is that people get caught up with the idea that the Wing Chun needs to close down in one or two moves. Well, maybe against an idiot, but against a skilled fighter that isn't going to happen. Wing Chun applied properly does not over commit. It is live and able to adapt. If you assume or blast forward when there is no opening then against someone skill you will fail.

There's actually a vague theory that Wing Chun partially developed through encountering western boxing at some point. As far as influence goes I wouldn't say that it was too far fetched. Stanley Henning thinks it has some connection with the original short hitting style that led to Xing Yi and others. So going to back to a practical fighting midset, someone who already understands fighting will be better placed to understand how Wing Chun works. I have always thought that Wing Chun can help equalise for someome who is not a natural fighter, but really comes into its own refining an already good fighter. As long as they understand it and don't muscle it.

[DuncanUS]

I agree with much of what you're saying, Simon.

Too much WC emphasis these days on people just straight-blasting forward. The angles are important, as is the ability to check/manipulate the arms/fist that is coming towards you. Whenever you see WC sparring, you rarely see Pak Sau, Fook Sau etc... which, of course, is a bridge.

Graham was asking, with humor, where the trapping was. This was actually a really good question. Not the text-book trapping you see in books or promo films, but the simple trapping that makes up WC; i.e. contacting/bridging for just long enough to cut off a further attack. A simple Pak Sau can do this. Yet in WC sparring we too often see the crazy chain punching and nothing else. WC is also full of grabs and momentary holds to stop a person easily stepping back or away once your in close-quarter hitting range... this also is abandoned by most WC guys when they try and spar.

Wing Chun seems to get a bum rap on this forum. I can half understand why when you see some of the internet clips that are up. That said, I have yet to see anything better (video) from the internal arts. There was a recent clip of Taiji sparring and it looked very much like poor wrestling. Ho Hum

[SimonMW]

Whenever you see WC sparring, you rarely see Pak Sau, Fook Sau etc... which, of course, is a bridge.

Yes! So many tools, yet virtually none of them used!

WC is also full of grabs and momentary holds to stop a person easily stepping back or away once your in close-quarter hitting range... this also is abandoned by most WC guys when they try and spar.

Again yes. Disruption and timing.

That said, I have yet to see anything better (video) from the internal arts. There was a recent clip of Taiji sparring and it looked very much like poor wrestling.

That's very true. I think it has a lot to do with the types of people that practice martial arts in general. Look at Karate in the west now compared to the hard core schools in Japan. There is a huge difference. It's a cliche, but it's all about money and relying on past masters reputations/legends.

[.Q.]

While it's good to see the bad stuff being shown for what it is, wouldn't it be good for this series to show good Wing Chun instead? I'm sure any schmuck can find bad MA easily, but with their resources shouldn't they be able to find a good school?

[GrahamB]

Sorry. Didn't mean to be too negative against the style. One of my sparring partners is a wing chun guy. He rairly traps anything when we spar though. I agree a trained boxer would demolish most Ima guys in free sparring, so this clip is unfair.

I was training with my xy teacher in a car park once and the security guard for the place came over and we thought he was going to throw us out. Turns out he was a boxer and he wanted to know what we were training. Then he challenged us both to a friendly spar. He was big and muscular. About a foot taller than me. Luckily he picked my xy teacher first, who is also a bug guy. That was his mistake! He would have wiped the floor with me, and I would also have shat my pants.

[DuncanUS]

Hi all,

Well, this is the first part of FQ Wing Chun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89fOMZyo ... re=related

Personally, I hate everything that Leung Ting teaches, but he always turns up in such TV slots because he has such great marketing skills. Sifu Kong, on the other hand... seems much more 'real'.

At 6:35 the clip leaves Leung Ting and moves onto Doug's training with Kong. This is much better material in my opinion. Kong also lets Doug have a go with him (7:28). I particularly like this segment as Kong is simply saying, attack me... and without the pads you can see that against an unknown/unplanned attack, he is able to quickly bridge, angle and move in.

The real shame of this WC series is that it doesn't, in the end sparring, pit Doug against Kong, and Jimmy against Leung Ting. Too much at stake I guess...

[SimonMW]

wouldn't it be good for this series to show good Wing Chun instead?

Chances are that the programme makers are not martial artists. They would have done their research about Wing Chun and Bruce Lee etc etc and through various marketing would have stumbled onto Leung Ting. Leung Ting would then have suggested another guy. So the programme makers won't have had a point of reference. Given that most Wing Chun online is rubbish it is hard enough for someone who does know what is good or not to find something. Plus Leung Ting always gives a well rehearsed demo and is used to dealing with the media.

[gosao]

ugh Leung Ting's stuff.. they should have went here instead. This dude got the goods!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4724&p=81504&hilit=wing+chun#p81504

[Chris Fleming]

Wonder how long Leung Ting screamed at his students for getting beat at their own game.

[Finny]

hahahaha

LT is a disgrace to the name - such a shame that the FQ guys went to them intead of... anyone else really

[DuncanUS]

A disgrace indeed... :-(

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta ... con_type=1

[dtactics]

A disgrace indeed... :-(

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta ... con_type=1

Pathetic retard!

[Chris Fleming]

OH DAMN!!!

He don't take no lip from Lip!

[chud]

A disgrace indeed... :-(

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_deta ... con_type=1

I was wondering when the LeungTing-girlfriend-beating incident was going to make it over here on RSF. It's very sad. I used to really respect LT back in the day when I trained WT. It's very sad to see what has transpired.