Bodywork wrote:I can't support the DR training model and the self limiting expression of it. In and of itself they will forever remain, less-than, or limited in their own potential with the energies expressed in their own freakin art. Their spiraling is too small, does not involve the level of tissue involment it could, some who do it cut it off and limit is with their sue of their own hips. They missed it, but have some power and the uneducated (with rank) call it good when it is not, some who skip over breath work, others who have some decent power, yet fail past ther first step (their bodies do not really know how to maintain the connections in fluid motion- It's a shame really.
Dan
Tom wrote:gregstec wrote:And then there are a few that realized there is more and have reached out to others for guidance
Greg
Great blazing balls of qi, there's another aikibunny in the house!
Hey Greg, welcome.
hearing the terms aiki-age and aiki-sage and the energy explained and described in Chinese
To be clear I have not seen (nor do I know of) anyone in DR take the body skill to the area of work I have.
I can't support the DR training model and the self limiting expression of it....
ors wrote:Dear Dan!
That was an interesting answer.hearing the terms aiki-age and aiki-sage and the energy explained and described in Chinese
Do you know, what was the "jins" described this way by him? "Shun" and "ni" energies? That would make sense, I think...
ors wrote:I can't support the DR training model and the self limiting expression of it....
The truth is, that what you have described here and above of this part, we can easily say to the taiji circles... No real fight training, no real fighting experience "stucking in" the tuishou world...
Shame as well... But! After some time I can understand those men. The experience what they get from their training makes them turn away from fighting, I think. There are much more to get from right training than the fighting skills, how I see. Feng Zhiqiang is a perfect example for the changing of reasons behind training.
Cheers!
Örs
Bodywork wrote:Hey Doc
As said previously, I heard the same thing from the Taiji teacher I mentioned -who had 11 years teaching experience in Japan-including teaching two Aikijujutsu guys (who were under one of the best in that art).
I wouldn't agree with that neijia list model- though I've seen that one-legged army idea before. Weight on one foot misses the optimum potential, a one legged army never does well you know. I'd also be seriously considerng carrying the weight from each leg to the opposite hand. Kokyu (to me) is not a one-line path -its infinity. And jin-force vectors are not that simple either-those paths are really something far more complex; They are double spiraling arcs that involve a lot of body tissue (including the breath) and create potential force vectors everywhere at once, and each is supported by an opposite or counter so you can generate power out from the center without losing your center in the process. Spiral energy is a very efficient way to do that.
Dan
Bodywork wrote:Hi Allen
I would tend to agree about the knee winding translation. but he might be showing some deeper things (I don't know Chinese).
Twining the knees is indicative of the hips being tied to them, (this is how most people move, and it is more pronounced in western fighters)all in all it's something which I would avoid. Coiling or winding is an accurate statement but mores the point is what is coiling from where. I think it's very important to understand that the legs are coiling and the feet are stable and grab the earth. The feet rock most often because the knees pull them out of line. and its the hips that pull the kness out of line. The bones of the legs need to remain stable and the muscles are pulled coiling up and opening on one side and coiling and winding down on the other. But the bones stay straight and therefore the feet are stable. If anything the knees may go back and forth (like in and out from front to back) but never are they pulled with the coiling as to sway side to side with the hips. Twining the knees weakens the peng and in training it also can hurt the knees over time. Proper coiling makes VERY strong and stable knees that function independant from the hips. they are held stable by opposing spirals from the feet up through the kua drawn by the dantian, turned by the waist and supported be the lower back (with the psoas). Trainng this way stabilizies the entire chain, so walking and being "rocked" by uneven terrain (like he comically tries to demonstrate at the end when he is mimicing a stumble) is less likely.
Video: you might want to watch the first part as he is deliberatly moving wrong and showing how the bad connections I outlined above look. and how they will pull and rock the feet and weaken the knees. Something else to consider is this collapse is the fuck-up you see so much in modern Goju and Uechi ryu kata.
If you look at the correct pull with the dantian at 1:10 you will see the waist and upper sternum connection turning (this is the central axis) and that the hips do not move as much as the waist. He opening and rising on his left while closing and sinking on the right. Thus he is in balance.
At about 1:30 the guy to his left (in the black and white track suit) shows a more complete spiral with the shoulders staying down and neutral and the arms potentially sending while drawing with the elbows sinking.
You also might want to consider that Hong considered chansi-jin to be more in line with "the one jin," and not rooting and bouncing out. I think a better discussion is how these simple mechanics lead to avoiding double weighting and a much better set of usable skills that are more inclusive and complex than a simple ground path.
Anyway, the pulling is an additive quality to the coiling; pulling up by the psoas through the kua and turned through the waist it gets joined with the spine and the arms into the hands. Thus your feet...are in your hands. Side benefits are that the hands connect to the feet across the body left to right. This avoids the classic one-side weighted so often used in throwing people. With coiling happening around the spine people have a bitch of a time finding your weight and center.
There are much more complicated and fun things to work on such as being able to shear in the kua; one spiral, from the other, splitting at the kua, and the fajin it creates. And this without dedicating to a fajin! This also contributes to in /out, up/ down, and the ability to "change" force at speed; not to mention heavy hands and kicks with no wind up. Again after you really start to get into years of doing this it increasingly involves more tissue, and as you do it continually you loosen up...and then....more tissue gets involved... till it starts to attain a real snapping quality. Then you can add the fact that the body moves in these coilings which in and of themselves then wrap around the bodies central axis and thus become spiraling continuous arcs. Any point along each arc can then have a positive and negative side to it. A yin and yang held in balance without you doing something dedicated on either side. Then again you can offer continuous pivots to any contact point with their own yin and yang involved. What I am telling you here is gold- for fighting and moving; It's also great with grapplers trying to get in for kuzushi while you are left to "change" every contact point and rain punches and kicks and set-ups of your own.
It would be interesting to hear -his- explanations. I've heard some of LCD's (also of the Hong line) and some of the Joe Chens. LCD moves very free and loose, then wham!
I would You tube LCD as well.
Cheers
Dan
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