the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

There is if you circle your bengquan and punch. The force is the same.

Cheers
phi

you don't circle your beng quan. that's not what it's for.
the circle in that vid looks more like heng or zhuan. plus most xingyi (hebei) doesn't lean forward that much--though beegs' style does, I believe.

as for the originally posted video, I don't think you want to block that jab that way--you're completely open for a 1-2 hook over the top of your sticking arm, while the "stuck" hand protects some degree the lower angle. You'd much rather stick with the same-side hand, so the blocked hand blocks the rear hand.

-Fong

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I thought it was alright. Though i don't like the wrap over the top approach. and i agree with nianfong about blocking with the same side hand (ie left jab blocked with right hand). Though i can be done with the opposite side hand (left jab blocked with left hand). The bit at the end i left was very risky blocked downward fine but kept his right hand down low so when the guy throws the right he uses his upper arm to block which seemed very risky to me. If he stayed more upright and brought the right hand up he could easily use the right to block.

i like warrens stuff...

Since my Bagua teacher studied under Mr. Fox's grandteacher fo 20 years, I guess I will chime in.

Keep in mind that most of the students demonstrating kai-zhang (opening palm) in the video footage are all relatively inexperienced with less than 3 years of practice, and that the version they show is the one that can be taught and shown in public. It's for demonstration, not application. Having said that, their movements are still overextended and sluggish -- void of shenfa and coiling power representative of the lineage.

The application version that I have been exposed to, works more like a combination of Heng Chuan, Zhuan Chuan, and Beng Chuan (not in any particular order.)

C.J.Wang wrote:Since my Bagua teacher studied under Mr. Fox's grandteacher fo 20 years, I guess I will chime in.

Keep in mind that most of the students demonstrating kai-zhang (opening palm) in the video footage are all relatively inexperienced with less than 3 years of practice, and that the version they show is the one that can be taught and shown in public. It's for demonstration, not application. Having said that, their movements are still overextended and sluggish -- void of shenfa and coiling power representative of the lineage.

The application version that I have been exposed to, works more like a combination of Heng Chuan, Zhuan Chuan, and Beng Chuan (not in any particular order.)

I'm glad to hear that... it looked alot like the stuff I'm familiar with, but changed around so it wouldn't work. I can see the utility of "dummy" forms in the old days, but does anyone else think this could be counter productive these days? Is it worth a students time to learn the form and function incorrectly and then try to unlearn those mistakes later, or am I missing the point? No disrespect, just curious.

BTW, the forms demoed were #s 1, 2, 5, &4 in most gao lines I have had any exposure to. Do they go so far as to change the order so they can tell if the forms are "stolen" or is this just a style specific idiosyncrasy?

Dave

Dave,

The 4 post-heaven forms demoed are actually in the correct order -- kai, peng, dwen, tan. The beginning coiling motion in the third palm, dwen, is a "style specific" movement that may appear like the fifth palm "li" in the Gao line you are familiar with.

I believe it corresponds to the "support" form shown in the clip you posted on your Youtube account.

Check your PM

Thanks for the info, I'll do that.

Nice hat..

Have to agree on the distance issue. I don't see much counter/positioning advantage, from an actual fighting standpoint though.....

C

So one person says the clip is "No BS stuff" and then someone who actually knows this style says it is basically BS for the public. Ain't that some shit. As Jesus* said, "Laughable!"

* from the Big Lebowski, not that Jesus.