Here comes the Judge

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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:41 am

It's interesting how differently people can view the same things and come away with starkly different notions of what happened or what is. Justice Stevens a "rabid lefty." In what twisted, 4-chan, alt-right world?

Ford wasn't credible? Even the Republican Senators and, gasp, Trump (who "tells it like it is") said she was credible.

AFA why it was pursued, I guess the midterms will tell. I'm not holding my breath as Democrats have a traditionally weak showing there, but one can hope.

This specific problem of SCOTUS appointments started with Garland and the disgusting behaviour of the Republican Senate. They are continuing to win the game they invented.

I disagree with but understand the Christian wackos who put abortion above all else and will support the dismantling of America to see a reversal of Roe vs Wade, but I just can't grasp why others would support someone who supports citizens united, an end to net neutrality, and the slew of other elitist rulings already on the record and to come in the near future.

Blinded by partisanship.

Come on, guys, even your hero Jordan Peterson says he should step down!
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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby vagabond on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:26 pm

It was pursued because kavanaugh is now in a position to rule on a case that will set precedent on the nature of double jeopardy, i.e. the legal viability of prosecuting an alleged crime at for instance the state level that has already been ruled on at the federal level. Which is to say, Kavanaugh is now in a position to write case law allowing Trump to pardon crimes in a manner that prevents state level prosection as well.

The reason that kavanaugh's performance ought to have barred him from the position is precisely because the position in question is in the highest court in the most powerful nation in the world. While Ford's testimony could almost certainly never be proven, kavanaugh conducted himself like a spoiled child, which is precisely why he shouldn't have made the cut.

As to windwalkers point that he's been considered fit to be a judge for a while now, yes, quite so, he's been a piece of shit this whole time
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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Yeah, ever heard the expression "sober as a judge"?

Afa the double-jeopardy provisions, it will come down to how states charge individuals for charges. For example, by not stating "and lesser included offenses" in the indictment. Let's face it, these are people convicted in federal courts who might then be retried in state courts. I don't think it gives a president to pardon someone convicted in state court. Of course, it could be abused if the federal government tried a defendant first, but that gets into the realm of jurisdiction.

Smart prosecutors --who won't accept the argument that "he's a great guy"-- will be able to find ways to get convictions. The problem is that this is really about Trump's way of pardoning (at will rather than at the end of his term; friends and associates accused of crimes to which he is directly or indirectly connected). If we're lucky, no future president will ever appear to use his pardoning power this way.

Yeah, I know. They're all victims, falsely accused, then convicted. So, it's only fair that they be pardoned. Like Nixon said, we need "law and order." The engraving on the Supreme Court building reads "Equal justice under law." To me, that means everyone gets treated equally by the law. I thought that meant, you go to jail if you're judged guilty. Yeah, I know. There are always exceptions.
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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby windwalker on Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:This specific problem of SCOTUS appointments started with Garland and the disgusting behaviour of the Republican Senate. They are continuing to win the game they invented.



Care to explain how this started with Garland.

They are supposed to advise and consent by vote. Not nominate and choose the job of the executive branch.
Historically this has been proven out.


"Confusion over judicial confirmations in the election years stems from the "myth of the so-called ‘Thurmond Rule,’ " said Wheeler. Named for former Sen. Strom Thurmond, who opposed Johnson’s 1968 Supreme Court nominations, the informal rule suggests that judicial nominations shouldn’t be confirmed in the months leading up to a president election.

Though Wheeler and all the other experts we spoke with agreed that it becomes increasingly difficult to push through a nominee as the end of a presidency nears, the Thurmond Rule doesn’t actually hold up."


Depending on who has the majority in the senate, which is why they tried to delay it after the mid terms thinking they will regain it.

They are continuing to win the game they invented.


Who invented?

"In November 2013, Senate Democrats used the nuclear option to eliminate the 60-vote rule on executive branch nominations and federal judicial appointments, but not for the Supreme Court[1].

In April 2017, Senate Republicans led by Mitch McConnell extended the nuclear option to Supreme Court and the nomination of Neil Gorsuch ending the debate


karma can be a bitch sometimes :-\
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby vagabond on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 am

Steve James, there is an actual case on the books concerning a dude in DC who's been acquitted once and convicted once and the timing is such that kavanaugh, having been confirmed, will rule on it, but would not have if his confirmation had been delayed. It will set precedent enabling Trump to effectively pardon his coconspirators. It is precisely an issue of jurisprudence
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Re: Here comes the Judge

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:37 am

I know about the case, and have little doubt Kavanaugh would do just as you say. I understand why people fear the prospect that Trump people who are federally indicted, then pardoned by Trump, could not be retried under state law. The argument is that it will set a precedent for all cases. I think that particular worry is overblown --not because it isn't true, but that Trump will pardon whoever he chooses. It's why I didn't vote for Jill Stein. I'm not worried about the power, so much as the individual with it --and there's nothing I can do about it.
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