Reiki is of the devil?

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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Trick on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Peacedog wrote:Trick,

Thank you.

FYI, the nearest conventional term for egregore is "group think", which leaves out a lot of the more poignant aspects of the phenomena. Read "The True Believer: The Nature of Mass Movements" by Eric Hoffer while keeping this concept in mind and a whole lot of things will begin to click. A slightly longer explanation of the role of the egregore can be found in John Michael Greer's book "Inside a Magical Lodge." That book gives instructions for how to build group workings and an esoteric organization from the ground up. It made much of what I saw in Asian monasteries make sense.

Please keep in mind the whole topic largely annoys me at this point. Just to get to where I am now, I find the fact that I had to spend the money I did, travel to the places I went, spend years of my life, and deal with the imbeciles involved ridiculous.

The reality is almost anyone can become a high end "enlightened" practitioner with about 2-3 years worth of, mostly, full time work when given access to the right methodology/technology. The fact that it takes most of us substantially longer is obscene.

Once someone "gets" how all of the meditative/yogic stuff works, barring their adherence to an ideology, it all becomes very mechanical. And that allows you to break down a variety of things very quickly. As a functional tool it allows you to master complete skill sets in about 1/5th the time it takes the general population. So that 10000 hour number drops down to about 2000 hours.

If you look at someone who mastered multiple skill sets in one lifetime, dig deep enough and you'll generally find a practitioner.

Also bear in mind that I've been dealing with all of this for decades, have developed my own opinions on things and can be a little cranky at times.

Things I understand today I understand I could have understood much early on on my way. Many choices I could say I regretted, but when looking back I can somehow see it was all part of a bigger learning process, an ongoing process. Even if finding “enlightenment” early on the way there will for sure be new experiences ahead.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby edededed on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:29 am

Peacedog - thanks for the very informative posts again! Your experiences seem unique in that you can tie the different traditions together...

In my own experiences (mainly Daoism/ICMA), I've not heard differentiation of energy of many different types myself (just qi (zhenqi) and its ingredients (yuanqi, kongqi, etc.) and maybe by organ). Do the ICMA, for example, work with these eventually in your experience? I am curious what they call them (linguistically). I also wonder if there is any dabbling with the "entity" side in ICMA lines. (The main theme just seems to be zoumoruhuo - i.e. fixing people once they start seeing things.)

Also, do you think that self-based practitioners have a much lower potential than the entity-based? What "separates" these two methods (or does achieving high level in one naturally attract the other?)

1/5 time sounds wonderful indeed - i.e. would that be able to "shrink" the 3-10 years general requirement for basic level (xiaozhoutian) to much less? I am very interested to understand how to train more effectively, since I seem to be going back and forth around the same place over and over again... (nothing!) :(
Last edited by edededed on Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Peacedog on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 am

Edededed,

This will be a multi-post answer, so please bear with me as I've some responsibilities to fulfill today and so it will take a couple of days.

Loosely speaking in the Western tradition we deal with eleven fundamental forces, seven planetary ones, and 27 further developments of the four primary elements. But, as we learn early on how to combine these the actual number is something like half a million. Not that anyone learns all of that.

The eleven primary forces are: vital, astral, mental, Akasha/Void, non-dual light, earth, water, air, fire, electric and magnetic. The seven planets are: the moon, mercury, venus, the sun, mars, jupiter and saturn. The 27 follow on forces are represented by the letters of the Kabballah.

Vital, astral and mental correspond directly to jing, qi and shen within the Chinese systems. Akasha/Void power corresponds to Wuji and non-dual light to Tao. Likewise, electric and magnetic correspond to yang and yin. A major departure is with the elements in the Hermetics utilizes a four element system. This is a bit of a discussion, but the five element system in my experience corresponds better as a medical system arrangement of the internal organs than to the building blocks of reality.

The four elements, along with Akasha, further break down into about 27 distinct energies represented by the Kabballistic letters.

One of the strengths of the Western approach is a heavy emphasis on how to identify these energies distinctly and how to split them. For example, assuming a student can clearly identify vital force, I will teach them the vital/astral/mental transformation during the first three days of working together. This corresponds to teaching how to transform jing/chi/shen in the Taoist systems. And it takes all of about an hour. I've had practitioners of the Asian system express complete shock about (1) teaching this so openly as they consider it some kind of top end skill (it's not) and (2) how easy it is to do. The Oriental systems are better at the body training required to manifest these forces, but offer little in the way of overt explanations and expect a practitioner to figure it out.

Meditative/yogic secrecy has much to do with a schism that occurred in human development regarding secret keeping in West during the 1500's over a math problem that resulted in the descruction of traditional codes of secrecy. In the Orient, and most other parts of the world, this did not happen. It is a primary driver behind the rapid development of the Enlightenment period and the subsequent Industrial Revolution and is one of the reasons why these movements never happened anywhere else in the world.

I'll write more later.
Last edited by Peacedog on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby cloudz on Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:16 am

Peacedog wrote:
. A major departure is with the elements in the Hermetics utilizes a four element system. This is a bit of a discussion, but the five element system in my experience corresponds better as a medical system arrangement of the internal organs than to the building blocks of reality.

The four elements, along with Akasha, further break down into about 27 distinct energies represented by the Kabballistic letters.



When I practiced with elements from a purported Japanese Mystery/ "ninjutsu" school.. Not the famous one.. It was 5 with the inclusion of Void; water, wind, fire, earth, void. We used Mudras and asscociated meditiations as well as sword forms.

From following your posting/blog I have acquainted myself with Franz Bardons first book.. I do want to follow a Western system myself going forward to be honest. I recently read the Magus of Strovolos and I am attracted to this brand of Christian Esotericism/ Mystical Christianity. My father was from Strovolos for example and it makes sense to follow something from your own community or circle so to speak. I know there are a few other Western Systems.. Rosicrucian for example. Can you maybe chat a little about any others you know about if and when you have time. Any opinions on "Daskalos" and the Researchers of Truth for example ? Do you know of David Griffin who is head of a Rosicrucian Hermetic school; I get his emails and whilst I don't feel it's for me overall there seems to be some really interesting content none the less. Comes across quite different from Bardons hermetic school for example. How about any of these: Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov, Martinus Thomsen of Denmark, Torkom Saraydarian. Sorry if that's a lot to ask about in one go !

Thanks for taking time to share some of your experience and knowledge of these things.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Trick on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:23 am

Yes i agree Peacedog seem to have quite some knowledge on these matters, of which I have little but find interesting. My simple question here is about the seven “planets” mentioned and their role in these matters of esotericism/spiritualism ? If maybe to much to write about it, maybe just point/link to some interesting reading about it ?
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:46 am

Ededededed,

The organs are used as points of focus in that they have relationships to the elements, planets, sense gates and Kaballistic letters. Depending upon what is being worked with determines how they are utilized. Stand alone exercises also exist for the organs as well. So in this regard the differences between this and the Oriental systems is largely one of semantics and application.

As for who is stronger. It depends, internal power practitioners are almost always stronger in terms of raw power. Mediumship practitioners tend to have more finesse and access information easier. At a certain point most practitioners utilize both. I prefer to do this later on in training so as to reinforce a practitioner's automony. But the reality is that to access certain kinds of information and tuning discrete forces mediumship has an advantange. But you want to be in the driver's seat, not the other way around.

As for mediumship in the IMA's, it is a huge component for the more traditional systems. This comes from both the shamanic aspect of more traditional arts and for a less discussed reason. It also allows for the modern generation of practitioners to contact and learn directly from departed generations. Which brings up a whole host of problems. Most of the founders of traditional systems were dark and frequently bad guys. The karmic implications are not small. People today largely practice IMAs for health, sport and leisure activities. Make no mistake, the founders of these systems were killers all and frequently enjoyed it.

Additionally, and no I will not name anyone, sometimes you see a martial art system just come out of no where. And it isn't made up. The skills and techniques are too complete and show signs of organic development over time. Yet, the teacher has some bullshit story about where they learned it. Some "secret" master that no one, including the teacher's family, ever met. They got it via channeling and mediumship. This is an energy intensive process and the practitioner is frequently childless and/or sterile as a result.

Cloudz,

This is a particular weakness of mine in that I came to Hermetics after decades of practice of the Oriental systems. Once I came across Bardon's work, I jumped in. My teacher of this comes from a largely Buddhist background and doesn't have much knowledge of esoteric Christianity. If you made it to central/southern Germany, I'm sure you could find alot, but those old school European practitioners keep pretty quiet. Because of the history of the Inquisition and WWII via Nazi occultism, most of the Western traditions outside of the Golden Dawn, and to a much lesser degree Bardon, keep a very low profile and do not wish to be observed or popularized. Respect their privacy if you attempt a cold approach. Some of these guys are really strong and not adverse to using violence to maintain their anonymity.

The only thing I can add is that the Rosicrucians take more of a ritual/mediumistic approach than an internal power model like in Bardon's system.

If you contacted the folks at Czechhermetics, they might be able to point you in the right direction. Otherwise, John Michael Greer could have some information on that, but he is largely a Druidic practitioner at this point. http://czechhermetics.com/
Last edited by Peacedog on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby edededed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:53 am

Many thanks Peacedog, looking forward to reading it all!

Quick comment/follow-up question: in CMA and Qigong in general, I've never heard of methods to train jing (which seems to be the primary energy in Hermetics). Mainly it seemed mentioned in terms of preserving it (e.g. no sex). But perhaps in CMA different energy types are bundled together without differentiating?

I guess I wonder now if my circle walking builds jing, maybe taiji slow form mental/astral, etc. Definitely sounds very useful to distinguish!

Again, much appreciated.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:14 am

Edededed,

Any time you train the tendons, you are training the physical aspect of jing in my experience. Add in the electric and magnetic lines of power and you train the energetic aspect as well. Because jing, and its potential, has such a heavy pre-natal aspect to it results and training times vary widely. Keep in mind this is where resistance training comes in and that is it's own discussion.

That said the exercises for training the tendons combined with the electric/magnetic currents are well known for making sick men healthy, weak men strong and transforming the strong into the miraculous.

And yes, one of the main purposes of the Taiji form is to train this stuff. It is easy to show someone how to do and virtually impossible to describe in the written medium. The only pointer I can give is make sure you use a form that has an equal number of moves to each side, or you can end up with some f'ed up body mechanics/development.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby cloudz on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:25 am

thanks for the feedback peacedog much appreciated.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby edededed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:51 pm

Quick comments again (don't want to interrupt, sorry!)

Very interesting - obviously I don't know much about Hermetics, but lots of things in CMA that I guess may be related (or not), like:

- xingyi's organ emphasis (e.g. 6 sounds) - maybe like elements a bit?
- mediumship seems scantly talked about in CMA (Mopai, shenda)
- mediumship seems talked a bit more in qigong circles (zouhuorumo, astral travel, dream teaching, karma, having the skill taken away, sending power remotely, etc.), but still not much
- definitely still a lot of secrecy in CMA
- "Childless/sterile"... that sounds familiar ;)

Jin training (jing) I guess feels a bit different to the relaxed qigong practices!
I guess it feels a bit electric (I personally have not felt the magnetic side, but I've never been very sensitive).

Taiji form (mine is Wu, 108 steps) is much more relaxed and slow (like qigong), so I thought it maybe was more on the qi (astral) side. But I guess you could train it with emphasis on the tendons (and thus jing).

But as teachings are often vague and nonspecific, I do often feel like I am not really sure what I am developing with what! Maybe that is part of why I feel like I've wasted a lot of time...

But again many thanks, looking forward to reading more. :)
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby edededed on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:44 pm

Hi Peacedog again,

Reading about Hermetics now - quite interesting to say the least, although quite foreign (to me) in a lot of ways, too.

In my ICMA goggles, some thoughts are:
- "Xingmingshuangxiu:" character training is balanced with the vital training. ICMA is usually concentrates on the vital side. (I perhaps should have learned the character part of a qigong type that I learned, but too late! In that (Daoist) school, the character training seemed to come near the end.) The character training of steps 1-2 do seem very good in terms of character development (even for non-adepts) - although the mirror idea is a bit foreign to me.
- "Yinian:" definitely very strong focus on this. ICMA sometimes is against mental intent/imagery, depending on the teacher.
- Training order: I would guess the training order is not necessarily in stone (e.g. many traditions have astral travel (step 8 or so in Hermetics?), but don't do all of the things in the previous steps (e.g. creation, magical tools, etc.).
- Elements: fire, water, air, earth, and void are a bit different from the five elements of China (wood, fire, earth, metal, water), as are the colors (e.g. water = green vs. water = black). I wonder if there is some arbitrariness to it. The bagua are a different way of looking at it, too.
- Collecting energy: Hermetics seems to pull in energy, and then release it out; ICMA seems to be more about collecting, collecting, collecting, and then circulating sometimes...

Very interesting in general to compare a very different method and get some ideas.

Also, your blog is very illuminating as well, with your different experiences and knowledge. A bit curious what culture's vajrayana you were involved in before? A few months ago, I had an inkling to go try meditation at a Buddhist temple (I live in Japan), and was surprised to find that I was to keep my eyes open (first experience for me). Of course, no explanations of why or what is being developed, so one of your most recent posts was very interesting in that light, too. (Thanks!)
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby wiesiek on Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:30 am

thx Pacedog, very interesting posts.
Origin of the "Dharma sword" , which I had a chance to touch recently ,looks like direct transfer, /channeling ?/ the system from spiritual dimension. However , Kim /contemporary system re-creator/was Lu Shu tien`s student before Soe San Nim settled him for meditation...

Do we have a chance to recognize right, in advance, - spiritual entity at all ?
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:12 am

Wiesiek,

Truthfully hard to tell. In practice the Buddhist deities are the safest to work with as they are, theoretically at least, bound to promote your enlightenment. Also keep in mind, you always have to evaluate the information these entities are providing you. Contrary to popular opinion they can lie or, at the very least, believe what they are telling you even if it is wrong.


Trick and edededed,


I'm working on a concise answer to the recent questions you brought up. I'll post something in a few days.
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby edededed on Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:16 pm

Much appreciated Peacedog! Please take your time of course...

BTW, I heard from a Chinese friend of mine that back in her village, every year some kind of adept would call Guanyin (Buddhist deity), and Guanyin would then talk through her to the village... Would be very interesting to see that, but I wonder how Guanyin would feel about (even Asian-looking) foreigner observers...
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Re: Reiki is of the devil?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:37 pm

The Buddhist deities for the most part don't seem to care as long as you are in fact Buddhist or open to becoming one.

As I am not, and not interested, I have had some interesting experiences wandering around the inside of mandalas. It was a lot like visiting a museum where there are no guides and the signs are all written in a language you don't understand.
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