The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby yeniseri on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:28 am

I will say that my practical experience of jujitsu is limited but isn't it an omission to not mention that Okinawan Kempo as part of a larger traditon and influence.
I realize that the greater Japanese mainland has the monopoly on modernization meaning the small island Okinawan viewpoint tends to be discounted but it is a great synthesis to see how the mold was made better through the Okinawan world view of its history.

Yes, there is a 'fuzzy' historical accounting if we look at Aikido (Daito-Ryu) and Hapkido, where we see similar personalities but the more visible tend to be made more important through historical interpretation or lack thereof. My reference is that the founder of Hapkido was a house boy (sound familar) who was allegedly kidnapped??? and brought to Japan, was in the house of Takeda until somehow the founder picked up some elements and made it as we know today!
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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby GrahamB on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:19 am

Hmmm.. I've read that twice now and I can't really understand what you're asking/saying?
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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby GrahamB on Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:03 am

Surprising things I've learned from doing this podcast:

Western Boxing is older than Karate in Japan, and older than Jiujitsu in Brazil. The first Western boxing gym was established in Japan in 1896.

Kano Jigoro, the founder of Judo, went from never having trained martial arts at all, to founding his own style in less than 6 years.

Jiujitsu has been in Brazil longer than Karate has been in Japan.
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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby Trick on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:37 pm

Yes of course Karate in “mainland” Japan is not that very old since Okinawa use to be its own kingdom, and there Karate can be traced back further in time. But then also of course, one can say Karate is not that very old in Okinawa either since the naming the Okinawan martial art “Karate” came around about the same time it spread to the mainland Japan………the use of Karate-Gi(uniform) is also a quite “recent” thing.
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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby GrahamB on Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:55 am

Yes, the original meaning of Kara-te was "China Hand" which is essentially the same as Kempo - which is in Chinese is Chuan Fa, the of-the-time (1600s) Chinese word for martial arts, Japanified. So they essentially had the same name.

Once Karate got to Japan they changed the name to "empty hand", because there was a strong nationalistic Japanese movement going on at the time and they wanted to downplay any Chinese connection. The art itself was also radically altered - belts introduced, kimonos, doing things in lines, simplified, etc...

We talk about that in episode 4 - there's a lot of stuff on Mas Oyama in there. He was interesting because as well as being an extreme marketer, he'd also noticed that Karate had changed from what it was supposed to be and he was a bit of a reformer of the art. Of course, he wasn't the only one reforming Karate. Lots of other people reformed it in different directions and created new styles.
Last edited by GrahamB on Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The History of Jiujitsu and Kempo podcast

Postby Trick on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:05 am

The “simplification” of Karate and teaching lined up larger groups seem to have come around from the Okinawan Karate master Ankō Itosu’s idea to introduce karate into the school system as a physical education program which was then followed through by his student Gichin Funakoshi. Also it was noted that often young Okinawans that where recruited to the Japanese army had an exceptional physique due to karate practice, but the practice was to time consuming and had to be “simplified” if to be taught in the army.…I’m not sure about the time lines, but the simplification and teaching karate to a broader public came around about or just prior to the same thing happened in China with the big schools of martial arts established in Nanjing, Shanghai and so on ? …………About Masutatsu Oyama being an “reformer” of Karate I have some doubts. As a Korean and somewhat affiliated with the Yakuza(which traditionally has a large numbers of (Japanese)/Korean members) he probably because of that could not continue his studies in the Shotokan school and just picked up a little from the Goju Ryu school from this he brewed up his own style, and later got some ideas from his former judo coach Kenichi Sawai(but not ideas of grappling/wrestling) his style Kyokushin seemingly became a mix of little of this and that. Some Kata here, Kumite there and some breaking boards in between.
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