Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby jimmy on Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:13 pm

LaoDan wrote:god’s abortions


Thanks for my band's new name!
-rock-

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:23 pm

off topic

a little history on the net, then and now

These heated debates over Section 230 can be traced to one moment in history: Ken Zeran’s Nov. 12, 1997 loss in a lawsuit against America Online.

Zeran had sued America Online after an anonymous troll repeatedly posted vile jokes about the Oklahoma City bombing using Zeran’s first name and home phone number. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit affirmed a lower court’s dismissal of his case, not under the First Amendment, but under the recently passed Section 230.


Until that point, Section 230 had received little attention. But the appellate court concluded that a 26-word provision in the law provides sweeping protections to online services for the words that their users post. Because it was the first federal appellate court to apply the obscure new law, the 4th Circuit’s interpretation quickly prevailed in federal and state courts nationwide.

Ken Zeran’s loss meant that platforms generally are not liable for their decision to keep up—or take down—user content. This legal protection allowed Facebook, Twitter, Yelp, Wikipedia, and so many other platforms to base their business models on user-generated content.





To understand why Congress passed Section 230, you first need to understand two court cases that led to its passage. The first was Cubby v. CompuServe, which Kayser had litigated in the early ’90s. In that case, the plaintiff sued CompuServe over an allegedly defamatory newsletter article that was posted to a CompuServe forum, accusing him of being fired from a previous job.


A federal judge concluded that CompuServe was a distributor that had no knowledge or reason to know of the alleged defamation and dismissed the lawsuit. “CompuServe has no more editorial control over such a publication than does a public library, book store, or newsstand, and it would be no more feasible for CompuServe to examine every publication it carries for potentially defamatory statements than it would be for any other distributor to do so,” the judge wrote.


and yet in 2020

But we are well over two decades past the “what-ifs” for Zeran’s case. He lost, and his loss created the legal system on which so many platforms built their operations.

For instance, it is difficult to conceive of a site like Yelp existing with its current moderation policies under a narrower construction of Section 230. Let’s say a consumer posts on Yelp that a plumber charged $2,000 but did not fix the problem. If Yelp were to face liability upon notice that the review was defamatory, Yelp might feel great pressure to remove the review after receiving a complaint from the plumber. Otherwise, Yelp could face tremendous liability.

https://slate.com/technology/2020/07/se ... zeran.html

being updated because they do and can infact control their content.

As with the

anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a cure for COVID-19


evidence is still being reviewed.
what happens when or if its shown to be effective
but was banned for use because of opinions or flawed studies

Just as in Ohio first they banned its use then ok'ed its use
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:34 pm

a little more clarity


The New York Supreme Court ruled that Prodigy was “a publisher” and therefore liable because it had exercised editorial control by moderating some posts and establishing guidelines for impermissible content. If Prodigy had not done any moderation, it might have been granted free speech protections afforded to some distributors of content, like bookstores and newsstands.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/tech ... peech.html

what it means is that they can not use the law to shield themeless from liability claiming they are not acting as "publishers"
when in fact they are acting as publishers.

Section 230 has allowed the modern internet to flourish. Sites can moderate content — set their own rules for what is and what is not allowed — without being liable for everything posted by visitors.

Whenever there is discussion of repealing or modifying the statute, its defenders, including many technology companies, argue that any alteration could cripple online discussion.

The internet industry has a financial incentive to keep Section 230 intact.
The law has helped build companies worth hundreds of billions of dollars with a lucrative business model
of placing ads next to largely free content from visitors.


. Whenever there is discussion of repealing or modifying the statute, its defenders, including many technology companies, argue that any alteration could cripple online discussion.


:-\ the masters of the universe have spoken
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:55 pm

Giles wrote:
Agreed, if that is true it will be interesting.


Interesting article

As professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health, I have authored over 300 peer-reviewed publications and currently hold senior positions on the editorial boards of several leading journals.

I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines.

As a result, tens of thousands of patients with COVID-19 are dying unnecessarily. Fortunately, the situation can be reversed easily and quickly.


On May 27, I published an article in the American Journal of Epidemiology (AJE) entitled, "Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk COVID-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis."

That article, published in the world's leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients, plus other very large studies that showed the medication safety.


Since publication of my May 27 article, seven more studies have demonstrated similar benefit. In a lengthy follow-up letter, also published by AJE, I discuss these seven studies and renew my call for the immediate early use of hydroxychloroquine in high-risk patients.

These seven studies include: an additional 400 high-risk patients treated by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, with zero deaths; four studies totaling almost 500 high-risk patients treated in nursing homes and clinics across the U.S., with no deaths;

a controlled trial of more than 700 high-risk patients in Brazil, with significantly reduced risk of hospitalization and two deaths among 334 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine;

and another study of 398 matched patients in France, also with significantly reduced hospitalization risk. Since my letter was published, even more doctors have reported to me their completely successful use.


In the future, I believe this misbegotten episode regarding hydroxychloroquine will be studied by sociologists of medicine as a classic example of how extra-scientific factors overrode clear-cut medical evidence.

But for now, reality demands a clear, scientific eye on the evidence and where it points. For the sake of high-risk patients, for the sake of our parents and grandparents, for the sake of the unemployed, for our economy and for our polity, especially those disproportionally affected, we must start treating immediately.

Harvey A. Risch, MD, PhD, is professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health.

The views expressd in this article are the writer's own.

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating- ... on-1519535

Fake news, doctor is lying or misstating facts ?

The other doctors white paper basically cited the same studies,
it was censored wondering why?

Does this doctors view point validate, confirm, what the other doctors found?
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:32 am

LaoDan wrote:
For those who equate abortions with killing young innocents who have no say in the matter, then there are additional arguments that could be made. First, an embryo or fetus could be considered a parasite (feeding off of the host mother)
Those who believe in God, and that God has a plan for all situations, should therefore assume that these situations are God’s will.

Don’t worry anymore, the savior is here already, and his vaccines will take care of the parasites .... 8-)
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:36 am

LaoDan wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Is not your God also responsible for the virus.

Not if the virus was deliberately created in a lab in China!

How if it was created in an US lab then ...?
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:07 am

Trick wrote:
windwalker wrote:Not if the virus was deliberately created in a lab in China!

How if it was created in an US lab then ...?


The same, i.e. not God.

We already know that bat virus sample was brought from Wuhan to the US. To the same lab that was shut down in 2019, The Fort Detrick laboratory.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182694.shtml

US urged to explain military lab shutdown

The Fort Detrick laboratory that handles high-level disease-causing material, such as Ebola, in Fredrick, Maryland was shut after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a cease and desist order to the organization in July, 2019 according to local media.

....

For example, "a large-scale 'influenza' killed more than 10,000 people" in the US in August 2019 following the closure; and the COVID-19 epidemic broke out globally in February 2020 after the US organized Event 201 - A Global Pandemic Exercise - in October 2019.


...

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189967.shtml

The Fort Detrick horror: a closer look at the US’ largest biochemical weapons research center

For years the public had known little about what was going on inside USAMRIID. Its nearby citizens, however, had made frequent accusations and claims, saying their health was largely harmed by its biochemical pollution.

In 2006, a petition that asked local senators to take a further look at a possible "cancer cluster" near the institute got more than 14,000 signs on US petition website Change.org.

Randy White, a resident who initiated the petition, denounced the "reckless practices" of the US army who "buried dangerous chemical weapons" at Fort Detrick near their home, which he said had made over 2,500 people, including his wife and daughter, die from "a rare form of cancer."

All this time, the US army has continued to block calls for accountability, dismissing hundreds of health claims from sick residents, White wrote in the petition.

...

"Worse still, they have the 'power' to bypass the Biological Weapons Convention (BWC) restrictions and public scrutiny," said the expert, adding that the US has been obstructing negotiations for a BWC protocol with a verification regime for some 20 years.

While keeping outside international norms, the US has been maintaining the world's largest bio-defense systems, increasing bio-security risks to the people of its country and the world, he added.

A previous investigation reveals that "hundreds of lab mistakes and safety near-miss incidents have occurred" at US biological institutes in recent years, reported USA Today in 2015.

The safety and management of the biological labs erected in its homeland and overseas have been a great global concern as multiple complaints have been filed against these biological labs for causing health problems,
Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Bao on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:34 am

And surprise, surprise...

https://www.jbsa.mil/News/News/Article/ ... in-summer/

Army targets COVID-19 vaccine by end of year, human testing in summer

In January, after the virus’ genetic makeup was published, the more than 700 Army scientists, researchers, and staff at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, or USAMRIID, at Fort Detrick, Maryland, began working day and night to develop medical countermeasures against COVID-19.

The WRAIR team, less than an hour away, just outside of the nation’s capital, also started racing against the clock to develop a vaccine candidate to beat the novel coronavirus.

Army targets COVID-19 vaccine by end of year, human testing in summer
Last edited by Bao on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:21 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:
windwalker wrote:Not if the virus was deliberately created in a lab in China!




might want to go back and see who posted that statement
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:24 am

LaoDan wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Is not your God also responsible for the virus.

Not if the virus was deliberately created in a lab in China!



The original post
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:48 am

While anything is possible does not make it probable.

In the US under the current climate with this administration anything negative is highly scrutinized, published regardless of outcome.

Any direct connection with the virus attributed to this administration IMO would’ve been revealed long ago. :-\

The US under previous administrations policy did have connections with the lab in question.
Most news information sources reported that it was terminated due to ethical concerns by those scientists concerned about what is called gaining.
Making a virus stronger so they can study it.

The funding for the lab was not as direct but became indirect because of the concerns.

If there was an intermediary animal,.China,
in its own interest would have revealed this long ago.

That is to say while possible it’s not been proven as probable.
Animals suggested have been ruled out, many unanswered questions due to lack of data directly from the lab.

The obvious and most probable conclusion is that the virus did escape from the lab nearby
Not assigning blame as some have suggested, only a causation for why something happened
Which may hold keys to the development of a vaccine or therapeutic.

All labs of this nature have had accidents regardless of country
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:04 pm

An interesting breakdown as to the overall effect of the various lockdowns.

https://www.aier.org/article/the-virus- ... -policies/
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:23 pm

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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby roger hao on Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:59 am

Giles - Look out the window - your countrymen are going wild over
covid restrictions that you have been nannying us in the US about.
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Re: Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

Postby Giles on Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:04 am

Well hello, Roger, nice that you're thinking of me. :)

Yes, I know about this event. It was indeed a significant demonstration. Around 20,000 people travelled from all over Germany to Berlin. I saw quite a few news reports and also on-location interviews with participants. I also know a few people (a few, not many) who went on the demonstration.
Some of the participants seemed to simply believe that the current mitigation measures - chiefly the obligation to socially distance, to wear masks in public transport and shops, and mass events still being banned - are an unacceptable (and unnecessary) infringement of freedom, even though Covid-19 exists. That the harmful economic effects outweigh the need to prevent infections and illness/deaths. OK.
From the placards and banners being carried, and the interviews participants gave, it was clear that quite a few, or even the majority of the demonstrators, believe that a pandemic has never existed, or that the pandemic is obviously over, or that Covid-19 is not dangerous, or (quite frequently heard) doesn't exist at all. That the information/data about this from governments, health authorities etc. is false and is being used to subjugate the people. And that Bill Gates is.... [etc. etc. etc. etc. :P ] And there was also a considerable cross-over with anti-vaxxers, anti-5G protesters, other conspiracy narratives and various other people of such persuasions.

Something I would stress here: yesterday and today I have listened to a lot of briefer or longer interviews with or statements by various demonstrators. In my view, very few of them were able to produce a logical and/or sensible argument as to why the anti-infection measures should be rejected. Plenty of emotion, but very little grounded argument. Besides the views I mention in the previous paragraph ("Covid-19 doesn't exist"), many statements were along the lines of things like "Wearing masks makes us slaves." "I don't know anyone who is ill." "It's all a huge exaggeration" "Fear of the virus is making people ill, not the virus itself" "In Germany we're not allowed to express our opinions, we're heading for a dictatorship" (This spoken during the demonstration to a TV reporter, with said statement subsequently broadcast freely nationwide. And the clearly identifiable speaker most definitely not being fined, imprisoned or disappeared by a death squad).

What I find particularly problematic: A significant minority the participants were quite clearly German extreme right-wingers, i.e. fascists/Nazis. No guessing needed here, thanks to the corresponding flags, T-shirts and slogans being shouted. And then other people waving hippy flags and 'normal' folk (this subject to the provisos mentioned above), some of who had even brought along their kids, walking side by side with the Nazis, and not seeing this as disturbing.
The only established political party, right across the spectrum, that spoke out in support of the demonstration instead of condemning it was the AFD, which is basically Germany's (currently) legal fascist party. - If anyone on this forum would hence conclude that the AFD is an admirable party, then go ahead and do this...
There were also counterdemonstrations in Berlin, protesting against the presence of fascists/Nazis on the streets.

Recent surveys indicate that the large majority of the German population (in excess of 80%, possibly even far greater) strongly supports the wearing of masks in designated situations (which in Germany means in enclosed public spaces, or when distancing in large gatherings of people outdoors is not possible).

And finally, I find it striking that the 'prevention fallacy' continues to be so strong and resilient:
The effectiveness of a preventative measure may be cited as proof that the preventative measure is not necessary.
And sure, I am aware that an absence of virus spread doesn't in itself prove that masks are effective/necessary either. But the original fallacious argument was actually produced multiple times by protestors (the ones who don't actually claim that Covid-19 doesn't exist, that is): "There are hardly any infections in Germany, so it's ridiculous that we're supposed to wear masks or distance!! The government obviously has a different, dark motive for making us do this!"

By the way, the acquaintances of mine whom I mentioned at the start who went on the demonstration are all people who - when it comes to this issue - are not capable of producing logical or cohesive arguments to back up their beliefs. Even one person's explanations for what is happening tend to be mutually contradictory. -- This in contrast to the arguments put forward by, for instance, Peacedog, which I sometimes disagree with strongly but I can certainly acknowledge their basic coherence. -- All of these acquaintances of mine have many fine qualities (none of them are fascists!) but on this issue they literally don't make sense. I speak from direct experience. :-\

End of Berlin broadcast ;D
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