Kurzweil predicts immortality (2030) and singularity (2045)

[Doc Stier]

Getting back to the issue of prolonging life span, from the perspective of a 50 year professional clinic practice, it has been my observation that the vast majority of people die because they choose to end their mental and/or physical suffering, not because they are unable to continue living. Of course, the exceptions are those who are murdered, killed in military conflicts, or who suffer accidental deaths of various kinds.

More often than not, people just throw in the towel and quit, because they no longer want to endure any more pain and suffering, any more surgeries, or any more pharmaceutical medicines with negative side affects. They are simply exhausted from the effort of living without any rewarding quality of life, and with constant pain, discomfort, or disability.

Additionally, many elderly people have outlived their spouses or significant others and their friends, their children are grown and gone, they are retired and unemployed, and generally feel as if they are unneeded and unwanted by anyone, with no real future holding anything to look forward to. Everything that makes life worth living is perceived to be behind them. When these factors are combined with the chronic illnesses, diseases and physical disabilities of deteriorating health mentioned above, is it really any surprise that anyone experiencing such a low quality of life at any age would choose to stop trying to live any longer?

As a result, it can probably be assumed that the individuals who live extraordinarily long lives are people who have been very proactive throughout their adult lifetime in educating themselves about how to achieve and maintain optimal health and vitality through a more efficient dietary regimen, daily physical exercise and breathwork program, while keeping their minds sharp through reading, learning, prayer and/or meditation practices, and so forth. Both physically and mentally, the old adage holds true, i.e. use it or lose it.

The individuals I know or have known who lived past 100 years of age in good health of mind and body have all been fascinating folks to talk to. Living Treasures to be sure.

[everything]

every month, my mom (85) mentions how someone died or isn't doing well now. must be sad for her as it's already sad for me. she "looks up to" her friend who is 92 and doing super well and her longtime friend her age who's had various disabilities most of her life and is also doing super well (despite the day-to-day being harder from most people's pov). pretty sure she recognizes they have a much stronger/more resilient mentality and outlook and tries to learn from them. how do you combat loneliness and make friends at 80, 90, 100, and beyond, esp if longtime friends are gone? they seem to have figured out this rather difficult challenge reasonably well (all women, btw. think we men are worse at this for some reason).

[Steve James]

how do you combat loneliness and make friends at 80, 90, 100, and beyond, esp if longtime friends are gone? they seem to have figured out this rather difficult challenge reasonably well (all women, btw. think we men are worse at this for some reason).

Many become depressed. Doc points out many of the issues that lead to people not wanting to live anymore. Imo, it's only marginally possible to delay genetic inevitabilities through exercise and nutrition. People who work outdoors and those who spend most of their lives sitting down can have the same genetics, but completely different outcomes.

Anyway, I want to live until I don't want to live anymore. I'll rage against the dying of the light then.

[Doc Stier]

it's only marginally possible to delay genetic inevitabilities through exercise and nutrition.

Agreed completely. That's why I also mentioned daily breathwork, or other internal practices, which cultivate and preserve a strong intrinsic energy or life force.

[Quigga]

Steve - 'living until you don't want to live anymore'

I hope the people around you have the guts to allow you to do so Letting go of loved ones isn't easy.

Or perhaps for as long as you have people around you that love you, you're going to want to live?

Who knows...

[Quigga]

Watched one movie or rather real life documentary where a 60-70 year old chap had terminal, treatment resistent cancer...

Chose to go out on his own terms with family around him, rather than continuing to live with such diminished quality of life (pain, not being able to move properly, maybe just wanting to control his own death if he couldn't control the situation he was in in any other way meaningful to him)...

Also leaving behind a good memory for those around him, rather than him being in a really horrible state...

Aging sucks...

[Quigga]

Also, what do you do when there are no more novel experiences to be had?... Re immortality. When your sense of wanting has been completely fulfilled.

Stillness can be so cruel...

[Steve James]

Yeah, Doc, I think breath work is very important.

@Quigga, it's true that growing old ain't for pussies. It can be easier to give up than to live on. But, if you're a child, you'll bury your parents if you're lucky. The same with friends; one by one they'll be lost until there are no more.

Anyway, anyone can be diagnosed with terminal cancer on any day. If someone could guarantee me 10 more years, I'd take it. But, if it meant being on chemo or radiation, I'm not sure it'd be worth it.

What saddens me are the young people who think they've nothing to live for.

[Quigga]

Equally as sad Steve Just reflecting on some stuff I've been in.

[Steve James]

Btw, my friend Damien, 70, just set the World Record in the M70 class 60 meters at the Louisville Indoor Masters Nationals with a time of 7.89. The previous record was 8.09.
Otoh, my best friend from elementary school, 69, died last year -with covid, but primarily because he refused to remain in the hospital.

It's a crap shoot. I try to improve in some way every day. However, I don't do it because it will help me live longer. I'm fatalistic about that to a degree. I mean, I don't take being here for granted.

Everyone alive hit the 1 in 400 million to one odds of one sperm to fertilize an egg. So, imagine you're lucky enough to be 99; know that you'd be happy as shit to be the age you are now. And, you'd still want to be 100.

[origami_itto]

Who wants to live forever? Most people can barely handle the changes in society that occur within their own current natural lifetimes. So if we lived forever they'd just work even harder to keep things static for their own psychological comfort.

We need people to die to turn the power over to the next generation and let them take humanity further.

Could you imagine the horror of someone born in 1800 walking around the modern world? Could you imagine if we were all immortal and never progressed past 1800's society?

[Quigga]

If I had the certainty of living forever, I would take things in a way more relaxed manner Not having to worry about when to have kids, when to marry, etc. Being a slave to your biology can suck. But that's an inferior viewpoint, seeing as our bodies are an essential part of this earthly existence. Just gotta get used to it, is all.

I think if people had the certainty of an eternal soul or afterlife, things would look very different. To assume progress doesn't happen bc people don't die isn't right imo. Progress is life. It happens during life, inevitably. Just whether one notices it or not is a different matter.

And the people that rule us since generations haven't changed, haha. They just assign new heirs to the thrones. Can't blame em, thrones are comfy hopefully. Yes yes, Damocles Sword and all that. Living paycheck to paycheck is the same experience so don't feel to proud about it, ok.

[Dmitri]

It "had" me at 'Kurzweil believes...'
People believe all sorts of stuff.

[everything]

we don't have to be a "futurist" to have a basic understanding of where these arguments come from. here's my ted talk on it in quotes so it's easy to skip over.

predictions are "just" connecting data points to "draw a line (probably a curve)" and then kind of say "if that continues, the next data points would probably end up here, here, and here". for "science" and sometimes even "investing", it seems to work ok. but with anything with human behavior and more variables that cannot be isolated, and of course, for "science fiction" (or venture investing based on "the next big thing" idea), you can't fully "do the math". you just try hard to make reasonable assumptions. kurzweil, sam altman, gates, etc. all do that, regardless of whether anyone thinks they do a good job. of course, they do have a track record and actual knowledge of the data points they're leaping from and using for their plans. it's different from the crazy homeless guy on the corner with the cardboard sign saying "the end is near". but in any case, someone may as well be the conversation starter.

anyway, none of that really matters for the purposes of OTT convos. we can pretend for a moment that we're all quite informed and can extrapolate from the data points ourselves as we tend to do with taijiquan (where everyone here talks as if he is a world leading expert of the field/art). I don't even understand the epigenetic reboot thing, but that's probably one of the big "data points". https://newatlas.com/biology/epigenetic ... -lifespan/

basically 1. first they restored vision in mice 2. they restored "biomarkers" of aging in mice. to stay more grounded (without understanding the science), I would say it's not actually about "human immortality" (that's a prediction and it's fun to talk about the implications there more, though). cells that aren't doing so well can do better. various diseases may be more likely to be prevented or treated or reversed. but we don't have to be a futurist to immediately speculate a little beyond that. the key assumptions underlying the speculation are probably:

1. healthspans and lifespans have already been on an upward trend (excluding covid).
2. more knowledge and effective technology to help is rapidly emerging at a faster rate.
3. "intelligence" is emerging that is growing much faster than human intelligence. this is in itself a prediction as well, but it is also observed data points.
4. the currently known limit of human lifespan is about 120. but as the mechanisms that cause the "finite state" are more understood (and can be manipulated), the known finite limit may go beyond what we currently know.

TL;DR:
then you basically say "the data points could even possibly actually extend off this piece of graph paper toward infinity".

fwiw, to Docstier's point, we should use our "available" technology. Tai chi also seems to combat aging https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2271979 ... onclusions.

to the (science fiction) point about "I don't want to live longer than my friends and family", I think the idea is they all live with you past 120 as well. if it's "I don't want to live that long b/c I lost this or this ability", the idea is "your knee/heart/whatever still works well like when you were half that age". this is already the current scenario in that "50 is the new 40". to humans who had a life expectancy of 40, this would sound like outrageous science fiction. with the above assumptions/trends, we just say that's a little farther "60 is the new 40", then "70 is the new 40", then "80 is the new 40" and so on. when we see an outlier like Lenny Kravitz or Chuando Tan (https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.co ... -56-344986), it seems clear that that kind of thing is possible for the 1 in a hundred million human already. the pros/cons of this kind of scenario in the "infinite" stage... probably agree with your speculations.

[yeniseri]

THe sentiment of immortality is just that! Kurzwell was very insightful and "openminded" but the reality of immortality will be bound up to the extent that it is another
politicization of 'something" (in this case immortality) based on the current direction in the space that is Now.
Concepts have become polluted where the masses assume the mental space of those who can remarket the current concepts into LIES and say it enough times to make that lie conform to a narrative
inconsistent with the vision and the direction. Just look at the concepts of freedom, democracy, etc though we all appear to know what it means, the application became a hell when the State voted
as majority or passed laws to enslave one's brethren and it was OK for the majority to accept the status quo.

Immortality will be the same way. It will be no different. Those who can afford immortality surely will get a heads-up
Immortality will become a commodity though it can be surpassed by those of US who see a right path throough RIgnt Action, RIght Mind and RIght Heart.