Shooting in Florida

[Steve James]

the law has taken a back seat, its a race issue, thats what black poiltical groups are using for their agenda,

Right, everybody here has been bringing up the race issue, except you; and, if you do, it's because other people have an agenda.

But, you don't say what you think of the law. Instead, you are outraged that other people are outraged. Cool.

You never did respond to the point that, if your article about the (dictionary) definition of racism was right, then ...

[beegs]

everyone here? never said that,
just look at the web and look at the news, some people said their were 8-10 break ins by minorities prior, some say the audio he says coons, other say he says punks, but bottom line in media hes racist, no questions asked

i never said im outraged that people are outraged,

i brought up logical points thats this has become a race issue with lynch mob mentality and bounties and the facts arent even in yet. and the rest of the stand your ground cases havent been compared in media

heres some info on stand your ground and how many never faced trial
not sure of what race everyone was

The law expands a citizen's right to use deadly force anywhere that he has a right to be if he "reasonably believes" it is necessary to stop another person from killing or hurting him badly.

The Times analysis shows that more than 70 percent of the 130 cases involved a fatality.

In the majority of the cases, the person who plunged the knife or swung the bat or pulled the trigger did not face a trial.

In 50 of the cases, the person who used force was never charged with a crime. Another nine defendants were granted immunity by a judge, and nine cases were dismissed.

In 10 cases, the defendant pleaded guilty to lesser crimes.

Of the 28 cases that made it to trial, 19 people were found guilty of a crime.

Twenty-two cases are still pending. (The outcomes of two could not be learned by press time.)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article1221412.ece


all this said, if the guy who did this was a racist or was totally in the wrong, i hope their is justice,but i also hope their was justice for all the people that this happened to as well.

you asked my opinion on the law-. I would have to see how many lives the law saved as compared to killed, and then make judgement, it sounds too loose to me



this guy chased a burglar of his car stereo a block and stabbed him to death and got off,

Judge Beth Bloom threw out the murder charge against a man who chased a car burglar for more than a block and then stabbed him, killing him.
Greyston Garcia, whose murder charges were thrown out by a Miami-Dade judge Wednesday based on Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law.
Greyston Garcia, whose murder charges were thrown out by a Miami-Dade judge Wednesday based on Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law.
By DAVID OVALLE
[email protected]

As critics assail Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law in the wake of the killing of an unarmed Miami Gardens teen in Sanford, a Miami-Dade judge on Wednesday cited the law in tossing out the case of a man who chased down a suspected burglar and stabbed him to death.

Greyston Garcia was charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of Pedro Roteta, 26, whom he chased for more than a block before stabbing the man.

The case illustrates the difficulty police and prosecutors statewide have experienced since the 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat in the face of danger, putting the burden on a judge, not a jury, to decide whether the accused is immune from prosecution.

In Sanford, police have cited the Stand Your Ground law in their decision not to arrest a neighborhood watch volunteer in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, 17. A Seminole County grand jury will decide on whether the man who shot Trayvon, George Zimmerman, 28, should face homicide charges.

Miami police Sgt. Ervens Ford, who supervised the Garcia case, was floored when told Wednesday of the judge’s decision. Ford called the law and the decision by Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom a “travesty of justice.”

“How can it be Stand Your Ground?” said Ford, a longtime homicide investigator who on his off-day on Monday plans to attend a rally in the Trayvon case in Sanford with his two teenage sons. “It’s on [surveillance] video! You can see him stabbing the victim . . .”

Bloom granted Garcia, 25, immunity under the 2005 law after she decided that his testimony about self-defense was credible. The judge did not issue a written ruling, but is expected to do so in the next few days.

The Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office is likely to appeal the judge’s ruling. Garcia’s defense attorney could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

The 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat when attacked, leading critics to say the statute fosters vigilante justice and allows criminals to get away with murder on a claim of self-defense.

The law also bestowed immunity from prosecution and civil suits on people who are deemed to have acted in self-defense. The Florida Supreme Court has said that the question of whether the immunity applies in each case should be decided by a judge, not a jury.

“Self-defense should be decided by a jury,” Miami-Dade Chief Assistant State Attorney Kathleen Hoague, who trains prosecutors on the law, said after Wednesday’s ruling. “To us, that’s the flaw in the law.”

The incident took place on Jan. 25, when Roteta and another youth were behind Garcia’s apartment at 201 SW 18th Ct. According to police, Roteta was stealing Garcia’s truck radio.

Garcia, alerted by a roommate, grabbed a large knife and ran downstairs. He chased Roteta, then stabbed him in a confrontation that lasted less than a minute, according to court documents.

The stabbing was caught on video. Roteta was carrying a bag filled with three stolen radios, but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished.

After initially denying involvement in the man’s death, Garcia admitted to homicide detectives that he attacked Roteta even though “he actually never saw a weapon.”

Garcia claimed Roteta made a move that he interpreted as a move to stab him — so he struck first.

Prosecutors and police have argued since the Stand Your Ground law passed that it would give vigilantes free rein to strike first and ask questions later.

In the Garcia case, prosecutors argued that the law did not apply because the truck was not “occupied” and the suspected burglar had run away.

Once Roteta ran off, prosecutor Jennie Conklin wrote in a motion, Garcia “no longer needed to use deadly force to protect his home or unoccupied vehicle.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2 ... rylink=cpy

[beegs]

gotta say one thing, in this case its the first time i heard the term "white hispanic" used so often,

[zenshiite]

Can I ask you another question? Do you know how "Black Power" is defined by the people that coined the phrase and the difference between how that is used and how neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups use "White Power?"

Fuck empathy.

So, are you insinuating that when any white person or group of white people use the words "White Power", then they must be a Neo-Nazi or White Supremacist?

LOL!

That's all the answer I need.

It's plenty to dismiss anything else you have to say on this subject.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Steve James]

I disagree. I think we should listen to him very carefully. Let he go.

[Steve James]

Well, I ain't about to get into a google game and start comparing crimes and situations. So, I'll move on to this comment:

you asked my opinion on the law-. I would have to see how many lives the law saved as compared to killed, and then make judgement, it sounds too loose to me

Oh, so if it saved if only a few innocent people got killed, it'll be ok. Well, that's really great, if your son or daughter isn't among them. But, ok, you go with that.

Afa I'm concerned, the way I understand the law, it was Martin who should have had the gun. He was being followed by a suspicious stranger who had no business following him. Even if Martin attacked Zimmerman, after being followed, it would be he who was following the LAW. And, the reason the law is being challenged is precisely because it is stupid and unsafe for society to allow people to provoke a confrontation --while they are armed, and their opponent is unarmed-- and then claim "self defense." Watch and see if that's not what happens.

However, converting this into a "race" issue, in order to minimize the crime is to be expected. It's the real "race card" because it doesn't matter what race the guy was. Oh, for sure, Black people are up in arms in the media. In fact, they were up in arms a month ago, when it happened, when there was no coverage in the media. It didn't get any attention until it got attention on Black radio, then tv, then MSNBC and CNN, etc. Iow, it was no big thing. But, that's why it's becoming a big thing now. Even if it's about "race," I see plenty of "White" people at the rallies and demonstrations.

Yeah, about your exposure to the term "White hispanic." That's a good one. I haven't heard it used yet. Though, I know that Zimmerman's father is "White" and his mother is "hispanic." I don't know exactly what that means ... "racially." What do you think?

Now, regarding the category of "White" hispanic, I know quite a bit from my studies. Primarily, it was invented because, until the 70s, there was no official category of Hispanic. If a person was from Mexico, he or she was Mexican. If from Cuba, Cuban, just like Desi Arnaz. Believe me, "Hispanics" were not boinking White redheads on national tv in the 50s . Iow, Desi ("Lucy, I home") was White. That changed when immigration laws loosened, and "people" started to fear "the browning of America." I.e., not all Mexicans look like Desi or Ricardo Montalban. Anthony Quinn, by the way, was born in Chihuhua, Mexico --and he boinked lots of Hollywood starlets. Well, ok, iirc, his father was Irish. Anyway, by the 70s, Mexicans (and Cubans, etc) were no longer immediately accepted as Whites, no matter how they looked.

Yet, at the same time there were more immigrants, there were laws demanding equal opportunity in housing, lending, employment and education. So, one result was that --because of lingering racism-- it was often preferable to rent to, lend to, employ or enroll someone who ... looked more White than not. Iow, if you were light, you were right ... or at least right enough to satisfy the laws. (Btw, this was why we often ended up with (dyed) blonde, blue-eyed "minorities" named Rodriguez).

Well, people saw this happening; so, they invented the "White hispanic" v. "Black hispanic" category. If you'd watched the Charles Murray video lecture, you'd have noticed that he based his figures on "White-non-Hispanics."

Of course, there's no such thing as White or Hispanic. They're just ways to categorize people. Ya can't tell a White person from an Hispanic. There are White people, Hispanic people, Asian people and even Black people named Zimmerman --who looks like he could even be Muslim. Shucks, call him Ahmed, and the situation don't change for me.

[yieldingxxx]

Sure sounds like he said "Fuckin Coons" to me.... but even if you don't think so, I'm simply flabbergasted Zimmerman wasn't arrested. I can't think of too many times, where someone was shot in the street and the murderer was caught red handed, gun in hand, and wasn't even taken into custody and/or arrested. Amazing. Then again, the Sanford police department isn't exactly known for its friendly relations with the black population there, considering their sordid past. In fact, some of ya'll may not know this but there is a Ku Klux Klan group in that area too... just sayin... (btw, I just got back from Florida yesterday and was an hour away - the Floridians are well aware of the many injustices in that County and by that particular police dept.)

Racism or not, a man killed another man in the street, one armed with a gun in hand, and the other with candy and a bottle of iced tea. And the shooter isn't arrested? WTF!! Something's seriously wrong here.

[yieldingxxx]

[yieldingxxx]

Sandord Florida has/had a KKK chapter just in case ya'll don't know about this particular area of Florida, which is well known for it's race issues and specifically problems with the Sanford police dept.

http://www.zimbio.com/Cynthia+Lynch/art ... +Past+Come

[Steve James]

Well, I think any KKK relationship would be relevant only if the Police Chief or DA were members. I don't think there was any conspiracy against Black people at work. That's the tragedy. I don't think Zimmerman was looking to kill some Black kid that night. I do think that he felt perfectly justified in doing so, even when he provoked the attack. That's another tragedy, for him too. He's going to spend much of the next few years, if not the rest of his life, looking over his shoulder. He has caused events that have led to him becoming both a symbol and a target; and he needs to worry that he won't also become a martyr. But, that is a problem of his making that probably wouldn't exist if he were simply on bail after having been charged.

Believe me, few people who think this is a case of "racism" also believe that Zimmerman will be convicted. The stink will get bigger until there is a trial. What could he be charged with? It wasn't pre-meditated, imo, though the problem is that it could have been. There was no intention, to kill. I'm no lawyer, but I think if he's convicted of anything it'll depend on Fl statutes; in NY, I think it'd be manslaughter of some degree. That is if it's just a trial and he's not made a symbol. He "shouldn't" get life, imo, even if he made a terrible mistake. Otoh, I can imagine that if he sticks to the "self-defense" defense, he'll be worse off. Hmm, so, I guess the conclusion just may be that he takes a plea. Remember that the victim's death certificate will read "homicide."

[gzregorz]

So this guy, Ape Hangers, joins the forum, posts three (really one) posts about MA and almost 20 political and then starts insulting long term posters for participating in a civil (if not reasonable) discussion. Nice.

I didn't know there were Hell's Angels that did Taichi!

Looks like someone left the barn door open again.

[beegs]

latest news on it, again is following someone a few blocks is a crime then he should have been arrested if not and the kid came up on him and attacked him , then it is self defense, he was the one who got his ass kicked had blood on his head and face, despite what scenario people assume

if zimmerman was physical first then hes guilty in my book, if its opposite then it is self defense.

many people make it sound like the guy had his gun drawn and apporaoched the kid, do we know that? was his gun holstered and he was aggreziveley confronted? we just dont know. the grand jury is april 10 and more phone and evidence will be shown, if hes guilty get him in jail, if hes not, then is this reverse racism in the media? nah forget it i mean hes half white, so he must be racist. you guys mention the kkk lol the panthers have a bounty on this guy, would that be called a lynch mob if it was kkk had a bounty on a black man? bring up the kkk but they arent involved in the situation, but the panthers now are.

steve- im aware of racial classification, do you really think thats why they say the term in this case? of is it more easy to paint the guy racist if he is half white? i guess obama is a white african president next? and as i said i dont know how many lives the law has taken, its in over 20 states, so rational thing would be to get stats and see if its a failure or working. no way am i saying this guy is innocent, or that the law is good but i aint saying hes guilty either, and i sure aint making the guy a racist without evidence. how many of thsoe other cases shown had no arrest happen? i dont know? is this the only one, if so then its shady, if not then what?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-friends-george-zimmerman-defense-racist-fears-life-article-1.1050568

[Steve James]

he was the one who got his ass kicked had blood on his head and face, despite what scenario people assume

Were there any pictures of him --now with his "ass kicked"? Or, is that the scenario that you assume. And, it's a real LOL that you compare the guy who got the ass-kicking to the guy who got killed.

the grand jury is april 10 and more phone and evidence will be shown, if hes guilty get him in jail, if hes not, then is this reverse racism in the media?

"If not, then is this reverse racism in the media?" Yep, ... classic reverse racism. If it had been a Black guy shooting a White guy after following him, who'd a thought it was racism, right? It would just be another crime ... or would it be self defense.

Anyway, again, mighty nice of ya to say that evidence will be shown at the grand jury. Yep, mighty nice that ya think it should at least be investigated. Kudus.

[Steve James]

i guess obama is a white african president next?

Right, you're up on race theory.

[Steve James]

Here's the guy who wrote the "stand your ground" law. He says the law doesn't apply.
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/newsnation/4 ... /#46811800