the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Extrasensory awareness is not something that you consciously MAKE happen, like a preferred fighting technique, but instead is something that you ALLOW to happen through increased mental quietude. It is a gradual, systematic process of mental modification in which a significantly calmer and more passive state of mind becomes the normal default state, even in the course of day to day activities and responsibilities.

When such a state of mind is successfully established and maintained, non-sensory information and images will automatically enter conscious awareness, when projected to you, via the subconscious mental faculties as needed. This can only happen consistently when unnecessary mental activity is dramatically reduced, thus allowing both an automatic awareness of and a spontaneous response to mental activity not generated by your own mind, but emanating from an outside source. It's just that simple!

Well that's all good news, and has been said over and over here, and elsewhere. And has been one of the central ideas in the cultivation of so many different mind/body disciplines that it starts to have less meaning each time it's repeated. I mean, sure, ok, but what about those times when it fails someone? Are we not all fallible? That's what I was asking about.

Like that old guy who didn't have his spidey senses tingling before he got attacked. It happens to the best of us from time to time. Like when we're tired, sick, fatigued, distracted. Nobody goes through life all serene and jedi 100% of the time. That's what predatory humans and random psychos are highly attuned to when they "spontaneously respond" to an opportunity to affect some outcome that grants them whatever power it is they seek.

So back to my questions about exploring the idea and gaining a more quantifiable experience of the phenomenon on a personal level. All the neat explanations and pretty pictures can only go so far in outlining the What of the thing, and only in a general sense.

If you don't have any drills or two-person work for that type of exploration, that's fine. Maybe somebody else does?

Doc Stier wrote:This precognitive knowledge that something negative has happened to a friend or relative, prior to confirmation of the facts, apparently manifests in a variety of different forms, including the definite feeling that something is wrong, or images and words included in a dream or a meditative vision, but specifically associated with a particular individual of concern. These same types of premonitions and precognitive images and visions can also enter conscious awareness regarding hidden dangers to oneself or impending crisis situations that may present potential personal injury or death.

While I don't buy into most of the Telepathy stuff/research/arguments there are out there, I have to admit that in some way or another, this somehow occurs. My grandpa passed away a month ago. My father and brother became seriously anxious and troubled during the 48 hours prior to that, with no apparent reason (they didn't consciously know this was coming). My father shut down, didn't want to talk much, and was depressed. My brother had a few anger outbursts, even throwing stuff around (not intending to harm anyone, just distressed), and became depressed and shut off as well. No family fights or such had triggered their behaviour. This was way too extreme to explain otherwise, and stopped the moment the received the sad news (each heard it at another time). They both swore that they at once understood that this was what had bothered them.

I tend to say that human just seek out these patterns, but sometimes the patterns fit all too well... =\ I still believe this will be scientifically explained one day, just as today we understand IMA much better than 30 years ago.

Rereading this thread, I see that a few people have asked how to train it or develop a methodology for working with this state of mind in a more fighty way. Doesn't anybody want to go there?

I disagree with some of the assertions made here. The idea that it isn't two-way already disqualifies lots of exploration that may/can potentially create reproducable skill/ability in any number of people. (Personally, I don't think it's a skill or ability so much as something we're already equipped with as humans, but have lost the frequency for whatever reason) It might be ok to look at the possibility that the mind can be absently engaged in dialogue - be it verbal or through physical expression however subtle or overt - and still be extrasensorially aware

I believe the meditative exercises are just one part of our sensory rehabilitation/reclamation. Another part of that cultivation might include interactive training methods designed to put it under pressure - if only indirectly. It might be more important for some people to recover their ability to hear what is already there before getting into prescribed or 'artificial' meditative practices. For some people, it might be a better idea to learn about the meditative states they create for themselves naturally as a point of entry to this kind of work. Proper training and time spent will take care of everything else. Part of that proper training in a fighty sense is the honesty of failure and how it guides the learning (re-learning in this case) of one of our innate senses. So as usual, I like the idea of creating failure.

I think someone already pointed out in either this thread or the other thread that we selectively deny, filter or block bits of information our senses compile for us, and that that is why our spidey senses fail to protect us. We blame it on a lack of spidey sense when it's actually our stupid filters. There are other points of failure of course, but those might be resolved or brought into the light by exploring that one.

So really, the way I look at it is no different than most except that I think it actually can be explored in an interactive, fighty manner to strengthen the relationship we have with our more subtle sensory signals. The first step is to actually quantify it without the delusion of faith or catagorical assumptions. Many would say that that's all very subjective and can't really be quantified outside of the mind of the individual, and they'd be right. Even so, it doesn't detract from what the individual knows, feels or understands about themselves if they've worked through training methods that bear out the truth beyond coincidence, embeliishment or selective interpretation. Failure is one of the first avenues worth exploring if one is wanting to keep their wits about them.

Which brings this all back to the idea that maybe our extra sensory awareness can actually be accessible on a conscious level.

I don't know as much as some of the others apparently do about 'ESA' so I'm using my own words and ideas and hoping for the best. It would be easy to just cite the work(s) of others or cut&paste someone else's words or post up pictures and youtube clips, but none of that makes for a very practical discussion. It's nice to see some folks commiting their own words and ideas here. It'd be cool to read about ideas others might have for working up some drills or two-person work for no other purpose than to explore a blind alley. What can it hurt?

I have some ideas for drills I can post if someone is willing to actually try them and report their findings.

Hi Shooter,

This forum is for us to explore, support and exchange ways to level-up our skill. Pls post some of your ideas. I will give you some feedback.

thks.
D

Apparently, at least one person on this thread already has a type of ESP...Extra Slow Perception!

Well for actual training I am not quite sure how to go about in a fighty manner. What seems to be the most important to me is to start to open and still the mind. Then once this state is accomplished in even a small degree of success that needs to be carried over into the fighty work. Through either still meditation or moving meditation the mind learns to be quiet and open yet aware and focused. Then try to bring that mindset, the mental feeling, into your solo fighting work. That includes fighting forms, bag work, even your strength and conditioning. Then you bring it into your two person work. You want to bring the meditative mindset into the 2 man drills and finally into sparring. You need to be very aware of the mental processes that are going on and learn to recognize mental tension. When things get tough the mind state under discussion tends to go away.

jonathan.bluestein wrote:

Doc Stier wrote:This precognitive knowledge that something negative has happened to a friend or relative, prior to confirmation of the facts, apparently manifests in a variety of different forms, including the definite feeling that something is wrong, or images and words included in a dream or a meditative vision, but specifically associated with a particular individual of concern. These same types of premonitions and precognitive images and visions can also enter conscious awareness regarding hidden dangers to oneself or impending crisis situations that may present potential personal injury or death.

While I don't buy into most of the Telepathy stuff/research/arguments there are out there, I have to admit that in some way or another, this somehow occurs. My grandpa passed away a month ago. My father and brother became seriously anxious and troubled during the 48 hours prior to that, with no apparent reason (they didn't consciously know this was coming). My father shut down, didn't want to talk much, and was depressed. My brother had a few anger outbursts, even throwing stuff around (not intending to harm anyone, just distressed), and became depressed and shut off as well. No family fights or such had triggered their behaviour. This was way too extreme to explain otherwise, and stopped the moment the received the sad news (each heard it at another time). They both swore that they at once understood that this was what had bothered them.

I tend to say that human just seek out these patterns, but sometimes the patterns fit all too well... =\ I still believe this will be scientifically explained one day, just as today we understand IMA much better than 30 years ago.

Science does explain this. Aside from hyper pattern recognition and the furious ret-conning we all do with our mental picture of our lives, this is the main principle at play in these instances:

http://www.skepdic.com/lawofnumbers.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0im1v/donettesteelepsychology/id11.html

You know, if anyone is interested...

UniTaichi wrote:Hi Shooter,

This forum is for us to explore, support and exchange ways to level-up our skill

Well there you have it, UniTaichi. Apparently it isn't all that That people would depict themselves fleeing genuine enquiry outside of what they 'know' of a subject says it all

Cryptohominid, thanks for the links. That's what I was talking about avoiding in working with the idea from points of failure rather than affirmations of whatever biases one may foster going in. As you can see, the resistance to different ideas is a two-way street afterall.

Ironic that someone would whine about others being resistant to this 'esa' stuff and then be so resistant to the ideas others bring to it.

Also, more in general here, we don't always think the same way—and some mental states are more useful in certain situations than others. If I am trying to reason out a problem, plan a yearly budget, devise an effective training protocol, etc... then linear, rational thinking is obviously the way to go. But if someone is swinging their fist at my nose, throwing a baseball at me, etc... the linear (much slower and more deliberate) thought will just get in my way. The object in those kinds of cases is to clear the mind (get in the zone, if you are a sports fan) and let the sub conscious take over. Meditation (to get familiar with the state and access it more readily) and repitition of the physical reactions required (solo and multi person training, sparring, etc...) are useful tools to facilitate this state of mind, just like learning logic and the scientific method are useful for linear thinking. It's all about the right tool for the right job, and nothing para normal is required.

Our vision and reflexes can not actually track a 100mph fast ball, but the magnificient parallel processor called the brain will actually project a (very) short time into the future what the position of the ball will be and the body, especially if properly trained, will react as appropriately as possible. *That doesn't mean it's still not monstrously difficult, just watch a MLB game if you don't believe me.*

People love anecdotes; so here's one:

Last weekend I was bar backing (shitty economy, second job, blah, blah...) at a very busy pub. I was returning to the kitchen with about 10-15 dirty glasses carried in one hand and the last two I had grabbed in the other held pinch grip at about shoulder height. A lady was talking to the owner by the kitchen door and spastically gesticulated just as I passed, knocking both glasses out of my hand and upward. I stopped, and in a brief display of one handed juggling I regained both of them without dropping anything else I was carrying and resumed my fast walk to the kitchen. How did I pull that off? Well, partly luck, of course. But having some training and not thinking at all (consciously) while it happened allowed me to get out of my own way and let my subconscious handle the matter.

Right tool for the right job, no magic or extra normal senses required. Just tapping deeper into the well of information already available in real time. We all do it.

Doc, I would like to ask you something. In real theaters of combat you say that this type of ESA comes into play in sensing ambushes. AFAIK there is no military training for it. I would speculate that the intensity of the situation and the constant teamwork among a well trained team facilitate the proper mindset and open awareness that allows for this to happen naturally. Would you agree?

The various manifestations of consciousness operate through more than the sum total of the neurological or physiological functions of the brain, and will most likely never be fully understood or explained from a purely clinical, scientific platform of investigation.

Fortunately, there is a systematic science of the mind as well, which can be found in personal research of the fluctuations and modifications of the mind through a number of effective meditation methods.

As such, it makes every bit as much sense, if not more sense, to personally pursue this line of investigation, too, as a time tested way of more fully understanding the phenomenon discussed on this thread. However, it requires a progressive course of systematic study and training that can only be investigated on an individual basis. There are no easy shortcuts, and no one can do it for you.

Shooter wrote:That people would depict themselves fleeing genuine enquiry outside of what they 'know' of a subject says it all.

Ironic that someone would whine about others being resistant to this 'esa' stuff and then be so resistant to the ideas others bring to it.

I'll assume that these comments are directed at me, and yet it would seem that you are more resistant to alternative opinions and paradigms than I am. If I was truly inclined to flee genuine inquiry of these subjects, I wouldn't have pursued learning about them and training them through personal experience for so many years thus far.

I haven't asked you or anyone else here to take my word as fact or truth, but have merely suggested that each interested individual should simply shift their focus of attention regarding the subject matter from an intellectual bias to an experiential investigation of their own mental capabilities via any one of many practical meditative training methods specifically designed to systematically reveal our optimal mental potential.

Cryptohominid wrote:....not thinking at all (consciously) while it happened allowed me to get out of my own way and let my subconscious handle the matter.

That's essentially what I've been saying from the opening bell on this thread.

Just because some incidents of awareness, reaction or response manifest via extrasensory processes, without conscious awareness or direction, doesn't mean that such phenomenon are magical, mystical or unnatural!

Since everyone is apparently capable of experiencing such things, when they allow themselves to mentally get out of their own way, it is clearly a natural and innate capability accessible to all without exception.

DeusTrismegistus wrote:In real theaters of combat you say that this type of ESA comes into play in sensing ambushes. I would speculate that the intensity of the situation and the constant teamwork among a well trained team facilitate the proper mindset and open awareness that allows for this to happen naturally. Would you agree?

Yes, of course. Successful team operations and mutual survival in the field requires a unified awareness and response of team members. Sort of an all are one and the one is all proposition.

Anyone who can't or won't embrace this concept is a major liability to the entire team.