Russia Ukraine Situation

[Bao]

Hey Bao,

[BS]

You should listen more to what the US says, not what Russia says. Here you can listen to a phone call:


"EVIDENCE: US directed Ukraine's coup in 2014 leading to today's war"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhDQ_mM8xPY

[Bao]

Even the Atlantic Council admits that it’s a Neo Nazi regime that has put Ukraine into lot of turmoil one problems

Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline)

It sounds like the stuff of Kremlin propaganda, but it’s not. Last week Hromadske Radio revealed that Ukraine’s Ministry of Youth and Sports is funding the neo-Nazi group C14 to promote “national patriotic education projects” in the country. On June 8, the Ministry announced that it will award C14 a little less than $17,000 for a children’s camp. It also awarded funds to Holosiyiv Hideout and Educational Assembly, both of which have links to the far-right. The revelation represents a dangerous example of law enforcement tacitly accepting or even encouraging the increasing lawlessness of far-right groups willing to use violence against those they don’t like.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/u ... -headline/

[Bao]

Hey Bao,

Putin said ... bla bla bla.

The good thing is that the USA releases old official documents after 50 years. We know what CIA did in Tibet, how US military planned to bomb US cities to blame Kuba. Nothing is conspiracies, the documents are official on the US government website. We know that NED acknowledges that they do the same thing today that CIA did yesterday.


We don't need to listen to Putin. We need to look at the proofs today, from. the USA. And we know History tends to repeat itself.

[origami_itto]

The atlantic council is a bit inconsistent in their coverage.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... nd-russia/

1. Why is Russia moving so aggressively against Ukraine right now?
This crisis was entirely fabricated by Russian President Vladimir Putin; there is currently no threat to Russian security from NATO or Ukraine that can justify the more than one hundred thousand troops he has deployed to Ukraine’s borders and poised for attack. Ukraine is at the center of this crisis solely because its very existence as an independent, democratic state threatens Moscow’s ability to dominate its neighbors and reverse the changes in Europe since the end of the Cold War—ones that have brought unprecedented peace, freedom, prosperity, and cooperation to all countries (including Russia). For Putin, Ukraine’s progress—despite Russia’s efforts to dismember and destabilize it—represents a dangerous example that could inspire the Russian people to seek the same freedom that Ukrainians enjoy. This would endanger the authoritarian regime Putin has built in Russia over the past two decades.

—Alexander Vershbow is a distinguished fellow at the Atlantic Council, former deputy secretary general of NATO, and former US ambassador to Russia.

[Bao]

The Guardian:

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... v-conflict

[origami_itto]

It's Russia that has invaded Ukraine... They are literally the only aggressors here. Using a flimsy pretext to justify violating another nations sovereignty like they think they're the USA or something.

https://theconversation.com/putins-clai ... ted-177511

When is humanitarian intervention necessary?
Russia has made these kinds of false claims before. It sought to justify its invasion of Georgia in 2008 and annexation of Crimea in 2014 by framing them as humanitarian interventions.

If Russia truly believed genocide is taking place in Donbas, it could have made its case in a more formal and less violent way. Russia could have shared evidence with different U.N. bodies, including the U.N. Office on Genocide Prevention, and petitioned for an investigation.

Military intervention to prevent atrocity crimes – which include genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and ethnic cleansing – only gains a degree of legitimacy if clear evidence has been provided to the international community. It’s also necessary to collaborate with other countries at the U.N. or other global or regional multilateral actors.

Russia has not done this.

Given Russia’s lack of evidence of atrocity crimes and its failure to engage with other world powers, Russia use of military force in Ukraine cannot be characterized as a humanitarian intervention to prevent genocide. It is an invasion.

This invasion of Ukraine violates international law and is likely to cause exactly the sort of humanitarian crisis and widespread death that Russia claims to want to prevent.

-Alexander Hinton
Distinguished Professor of Anthropology; Director, Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights, Rutgers University - Newark

[GrahamB]

The Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky has played a blinder so far. Just imagine Trump or Boris trying to do this!


"In the past 24 hours I found so much respect for  Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. I don’t know of a single leader that I’ve seen in my lifetime, who has literally prepared to die for his country’s freedom, independence, and democracy. He’s been in the streets with his troops as Russians attack from all sides, assuring them he would fight to the bitter end with them. 

And moments ago this was reported… “Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has turned down an offer from the United States of evacuation from the capital city Kyiv, the Ukraine embassy in Britain said Saturday on Twitter.
According to the embassy, Zelensky told the US: "The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.”

I’m not sure if he’s going to survive this, but he is fast becoming a legend that will be spoken of in the history books. If you believe in democracy, the guy is living it Revolutionary War style. "

[windwalker]

[

Did you listen to Putin's full speech? = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc43wHhb1Vc

It's pretty clear that he is worried that the USA and Nato continue trying to turn Russia into another Afghanistan, Libya and Iraq. Of course he should be.

He also wants to de-militarize Ukraine and get rid of the fascist US puppet regime.

Didn't listen to his speech, but have read about the request By Russia which seem pretty reasonable considering.

There is no country that would allow other countries to control the area directly on their border, viewing it as a security threat.
At some point they would have to take some action, as they are doing now in light of what happens to countries that allow themselves to be surrounded military or economically.


Historically all Russian leaders up until the present one had issues with what was happening.

China learned a great lesson watching this un-fold, not about to allow the same thing to happen to its country.

President Vladimir Putin placed the country’s strategic deterrence forces on “special” alert on Sunday, announcing the move during a meeting with Russia’s Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of Staff Valery Gerasimov.

https://www.rt.com/russia/550767-putin- ... ces-order/

One of the real dangers when being nuclear capable is no longer a deterrent.

When one does not respect or understand their adversary.
When one feels isolated from events it causes. As the US seems to feel.

bad things happen.


Historically they assured the Russians that NATO would not expand, and later on did it anyway.

One should take note of all the actions the US is taken to ensure it's strategic an economic status in the world.

For some the invasion of Ukraine seems to have been a surprise,
hope the use of tactical nukes, does not also become a surprise

People talk about sovereignty as if it's something guaranteed set in stone...

In one of the most dramatic announcements of the Cold War, President Jimmy Carter states that as of January 1, 1979, the United States will formally recognize the communist People’s Republic of China (PRC) and sever relations with Taiwan.

This controversy also concerns whether the existence and legal status as a sovereign state of both the ROC and the PRC is legitimate as a matter of international law.

The status quo is accepted in large part because it does not define the legal or future status of Taiwan, leaving each group to interpret the situation in a way that is politically acceptable to its members.

Old issues not resolved.

Note that it's not the people living there who decide "sovereignty"






Well aware as are others of the "democracy tour" the US has taken.

[Kelley Graham]

This situation is only indirectly related to the West. https://apple.news/AtiGwBZ6mTOiqbU5EL3VJOA

[windwalker]

I’m not sure if he’s going to survive this, but he is fast becoming a legend that will be spoken of in the history books. If you believe in democracy, the guy is living it Revolutionary War style. "

If you believe in democracy, the guy is living it Revolutionary

So said of all the other leaders supported and installed by the west.

He knows how to play social media well

At some point he will be forced to negotiate with Russia directly, and NATO will have to recognize the country as a neutral buffer zone.

In a hopeful sign of de-escalation, Ukrainian officials said they will meet Russian counterparts at the Belarus border, shortly after Vladimir Putin said he is putting Russia’s nuclear forces on higher alert.

https://www.newswars.com/ukraine-presid ... us-border/

If true,,, a harbinger of changes to come

[Bob]

[

Didn't listen to his speech, but have read about the request By Russia which seem pretty reasonable considering.

There is no country that would allow other countries to control the area directly on their border, viewing it as a security threat.
At some point they would have to take some action, as they are doing now in light of what happens to countries that allow themselves to be surrounded military or economically.

So why aren't countries like Finland, Sweden or others given the same consideration regarding their borders with Russia? They don't even have an area to buffer the threat and why aren't they permitted the same right to action?

Do you think that these countries don't see Russia as a security threat? Russia with a much larger land army than all of Europe and an incredibly advanced arsenal of nuclear weapons.

Even those that were members of the former Eastern Block experience Russia as a security threat and maybe NATO is seen as their way of controlling the threat.

What choices do they really have if they regard, and rationally so, Russia as a security threat?

I get idea that the United States is accused of being the big bad wolf but giving the Russian Bear a pass seems ludicrous.

Putin and the Oligarchs are the mirror image of the "capitalists" that the Left seems to so eagerly rail against.

[windwalker]

So why aren't countries like Finland, Sweden or others given the same consideration regarding their borders with Russia? They don't even have an area to buffer the threat and why aren't they permitted the same right to action?

Don't know,
maybe some RSF members here can answer..

Are they part of NATO ?

Together with Austria, Cyprus, and Malta, Finland and Sweden are the only EU states that are not members of NATO.

Wonder why ?

Why make an issue when there is no issue to make.... Seems prudent.

Maybe if the US was not involved things would be more clear...to those involved

What choices do they really have if they regard, and rationally so, Russia as a security threat?

Is there evidence in those countries for this to be "rationally so" for them
Maybe they don't regard Russia as a security threat, maybe they regard the US as the threat.

The tone of the post seems to paint Russia as the bad guys and the US as the good guys...

The US uses it's idea / way / of "democracy" as a cudgel against those who don't follow it.
Allowing it to do as it wants in the name of it...

[Bob]

And maybe they do

https://www.euractiv.com/section/defenc ... r-ukraine/

As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine extends Moscow’s military power to the borders of several NATO members, NATO partners Finland and Sweden can be part of an intensified exchange of information and NATO’s strategic communication.

“Sweden and Finland may, if they so wish on a case-by-case basis, participate in enhanced contacts with NATO, enhanced information exchange and coordination, information on operations and strategic communications,” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö confirmed to reporters after a virtual NATO summit on Friday (26 February).

NATO partners Finland, Sweden and the EU were also invited to participate.

“It is not in itself something revolutionary, but it should be noted that all countries see this as the right arrangement,” Niinistö said, adding this would not equal the possibility of Finland joining NATO.

In practice, this means that the two countries could participate in enhanced intelligence-sharing and strategic communications on a case-by-case basis.

Based on the arrangement, Finland could, for example, request confidential information from NATO or vice versa, while the respective holder of the information would decide whether to provide the information.

According to diplomatic sources, NATO leaders on Friday discussed the special role of both since “they need to be fully informed because of their strategic position for Russia”.

Finland and Sweden are two of six countries known as ‘enhanced partners’, largely due to their contributions to NATO operations. As such, they have options when it comes to cooperation.

In recent months, NATO has stepped up cooperation focusing on security in the Baltic Sea region, which includes political consultations, exchanges of information on hybrid warfare, and joint exercises.

EURACTIV also understands that NATO in general is exploring different mechanisms to share information with its partners that are not members of the alliance.

Nordic worries

Over the past years, Finland and Sweden have both complained of incidents involving Russian submarines and aircraft breaching airspace in the Baltic Sea region. They have responded by tightening bilateral military cooperation and fostering more ties with NATO.

Finland, which has more than 1,300 kilometres of border with Russia, but also Sweden, are aware any move to join the alliance would create backlash in Moscow.

After deciding to remain militarily neutral in the 1990s, both eventually abandoned their political neutrality when they joined the EU in 1995.

Finland and Sweden’s policies of military non-alignment have persisted to the present, although renewed threats of Russian aggression are prompting conversations of potential NATO membership.

Russia not amused

Moscow says moves by Helsinki and Stockholm towards closer ties with NATO are of “special concern” to Russia, which has vehemently opposed NATO’s eastward expansion.

Earlier on Friday (26 February), as NATO leaders were meeting in Brussels, Russia accused NATO and the US of trying to lure Finland and Sweden into the alliance.

“It is obvious that the admission of Finland and Sweden to NATO, which is primarily (…) a military bloc, would have serious military and political consequences that would require retaliatory steps by our country,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said at a weekly press briefing in Moscow, quoted by Russian news agencies.

“We regard the Finnish government’s commitment to a military non-alignment policy as an important factor in ensuring security and stability in Northern Europe. Finland’s accession to NATO would have serious military and political repercussions,” Zakharova added. The spokeswoman has recently been added to the EU’s sanctions list over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Sweden received a similar warning.

Support for NATO membership in both countries has been on the rise over the past few months, mostly driven by events in and around Ukraine, recent surveys show.

Together with Austria, Cyprus, Ireland, and Malta, Finland and Sweden are the only EU states that are not members of NATO.

Asked to comment on Moscow’s warning to the two EU members, EU’s chief diplomat Josep Borrell declined, but affirmed, “We consider that all states are free to choose their foreign policy and their policy of alliances.”

[Edited by Alice Taylor]

Languages: Deutsch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCcuZXea16Q

Russia threatened military and political consequences against Finland and Sweden if they attempted to join NATO. Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova warned against other countries attempting to join NATO after Russia started a war with Ukraine. Russia and Finland share a 1,340-kilometer border, which is the longest shared between Russia and any European Union member state.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcJkVyJqIc



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwzliJF0-SI

[windwalker]

Russia threatened military and political consequences against Finland and Sweden if they attempted to join NATO. Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova warned against other countries attempting to join NATO after Russia started a war with Ukraine. Russia and Finland share a 1,340-kilometer border, which is the longest shared between Russia and any European Union member state.

We seem to have very different views on this....
The US has done the same and more, should you care to look.....

It falls within the interest of a countries security
for those countries that have the ability to protect their own borders

NATO was designed to counter balance a threat that no longer exist.

Russia has specifically stated and asked for other countries
not involved in the conflict to not become involved.

China taking note, will start to exercise more control in the areas that it dominates.

[Bob]

I know what the Big Bad Wolf looks like - I lived under the reign of Nixon and others as I wore on my steel workers' helmet Buy American/Sell Nixon in the 1970s. Milton Friedman's Chile boys were not ever in my favor - but that is neither here nor there for today' issue.

I also know what the marauding Russian Bear is capable of and at this moment it has become exceedingly dangerous to all of Europe and my heart lies with the Russian people as I have "simmered" in Russian Orthodox culture and custom since the day I was born. (Baptized)