the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I had read something BK Frantzis wrote about cloud hands being an optimal qigong to do. It confirmed my personal experience of better cheee hugging doing cloud hands. I have no idea why that is, though, so just wondering if there is some TCM theory that explains what's happening here. Dumb jokes or snarky comments are also always appreciated.

I don't know about "optimal" but it's a good one for sure. I feel it activates the yin and yang meridians that flow up and down the arms and the trunk rotation/whole body connectedness makes for a good drill to do. Feels like it's a metal-element movement.

Perhaps as a result, there are similar practices in baguazhang, xingyiquan (as "tuoxing" crocodile form), and yiquan (in the latter, as one of the "shili" exercises).

I had a neat instruction last night from a local guy whose class I went to visit (going to see my extended taiji family) in which he told me that in yun shou, he liked to breathe the hand up and across the center and then as the hand dropped, exhale and have it end up doing an almost pi quan like action. The power it generated was pretty neato!

Breath and blood regulation can be physically realized/monitored with this particular motion.
Marry blood to breath as motion occurs. Optimum union of the movement, the breath and the blood flow to the limbs will produce a noticeable sensation.

benefits? self evident? unknown?

also, why is this off the topic here?

thanks for those answers. I posted in OTT because I was mainly wondering about health aspects at the moment, although it'd be great to talk about power, etc., as well.

A lot of the benefits (as seen from a qigong point of view) from performing specific movement sequences like that is how the movement effects the interior of the body.

I'm ot entirely sure, but I think the cloud hands sequence effects both the liver and kidneys. Light interior movement of either of those areas should benefit the organ in question and from there the function of the entire critter.

You might want to ask someone LIke Ven Fish, Doc Stier or D Glenn.

Best,

S

it pumps the energy and blood throughout the entire body
as you spiral the arms and the legs

if you focus on the hip turning it opens up the kua and the lower back
if you focus on the waist turning it more focuses on the internal organs
so kidneys, liver, entire abdomen (digestion/spleen)
as you twist and the arms and hands move you also get movement in the ribcage (upper torso and associated organs)

good because it engages so much of the body
don't have to step (move the feet)

you could probably debate that something like the standing version of BaDuanJin
from the health standpoint might give a better whole body workout/effect because the eight exercises form a complete set
as in they start with warming up the body, work the entire body in sequence (including bending and stretching movements), then closes by vibrating away any tension that you might have generated while preforming the set

something like the cloud hands movement also give loads of health benefits but will also develop martial attributes
like moving with connection and spirals, etc.......



franklin

7 years late, but thanks for this answer, franklin.

Seeing as how this thread has swum back up to the surface, and because I missed it the first time around:

More than 20 years ago, I had been learning tai chi for a year or two. And there was a period when I was going through major inner conflicts, all kinds of stuff going on. Very torn about ending a relationship, very torn about attitudes to myself, my history etc. Crazy emotions vs. rational analysis, and other conflicts. I had started a course of psychotherapy and had also seen a kind of energy/aura healer a couple of times. So there I was standing in a quiet corner of a park, doing some tai chi/qigong exercises and after a while I started doing cloud hands. And after a few moments I had a very strong and somehow clear feeling of something happening in myself, sort of a vision and sort of a tactile sensation: I felt ('saw') the two halves of my brain coming together, certain colours appearing and changing, connecting more, and a new quality in me arising from this improved union. Something in me felt quite different, better. From that moment on I had a stronger degree of clarity and mental/emotional integration that helped me to move forward. Didn't solve all my issues instantaneously, of course (dammit ) but something was definitely better.

I feel pretty sure that it was the symmetrical, rotating, homolateral and contralateral aspects of the cloud hands movement, all in one package, that triggered this change. Maybe it was waiting to happen anyway, I don't know, but I don't think it was a coincidence that it happened at that moment.
I also wonder whether there is any relationship to the trauma-therapy effects of the Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) method, which often involves patients moving their eyes from left to right, right to left and (it is claimed) creates a better connection between the brain hemispheres. At any rate, when I had this cloud hands experience I knew nothing about EMDR or anything similar.

everything wrote:I had read something BK Frantzis wrote about cloud hands being an optimal qigong to do.

I have met similar teachers, they spit out strange generalizations for no reason other than that some sort of cool sounding thought formed inside of their heads. If a teacher is famous or not, you should still be able to recognize BS when you hear it.
... IMHO ...

Most of the things said here relate to every posture in tai chi
Like was stated before it has properties in common with turtle and single palm change
It is earth at its best
CMC used it in his 5 animal form as bear and earth
From a western point of view it swaps between sympathetic and parasimpithetic and stimulates both hemispheres of the brain
If I get a student who is too yang I get them to practice cloud hands,turtle and SPC to balance their energy
Just like I would use Stomach 36 yang 3 mile

Bao wrote:

everything wrote:I had read something BK Frantzis wrote about cloud hands being an optimal qigong to do.

I have met similar teachers, they spit out strange generalizations for no reason other than that some sort of cool sounding thought formed inside of their heads. If a teacher is famous or not, you should still be able to recognize BS when you hear it.
... IMHO ...

Don't mean to imply that because he has a "big name", it must be true, but yeah.

IME, there is definitely something different feeling about it. It's not too specific for me, but it is good. Want to see what everyone else says or has experienced.

Giles - now that is a completely different story with it!

wayne hansen wrote:CMC used it in his 5 animal form as bear and earth

CMC=Zheng Manqing? ....What is the 5 animal form? Is it a form,or five isolated exercises? Is this exercise specific to the Malaysian branch or is it also to be found in Taiwan and maybe in the US too?