A message from Bill Cosby

[MikeC]

Somebody sent me this in an email, just thought I'd share.

'They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain't,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be....

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk..

And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English
except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living. People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.


These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what??

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.
I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2??

Where were you when he was 12??

Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol??

And where is the father?? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward:
Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?

People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from??

We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa .

With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

We have got to take the neighborhood back.

People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.'


Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed..D.

[Steve James]

Somebody sent me this in an email, just thought I'd share.

'They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain't,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be....

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk..

And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English
except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living. People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what??

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2??
Where were you when he was 12??
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol??
And where is the father?? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward:

Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?
Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from??

We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa .

With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.
Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

[b]We cannot blame the white people any longer.'

Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed..D. [/quote]

Yeah, I agree. The black people are to blame.

[Darthwing Teorist]

Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol??

So, what is wrong with gun ownership?

[Steve James]

Aw, okay, I'll address what Bill Cosby is talking about --instead of the reasons for the thread .

I understand what Cosby means when he complains about the way the young people in his community dress, speak, the kind of music they listen to, their seeming lack of interest in education, and the high rates of teenage parents. Those are problems. But, which one of them are limited to the people in Bill's community?

Even if we argue that all these things are ten times worse in the black community (which they aren't), that wouldn't explain why the same problems exist at all in the white community. Well, what we hear most is that the cause for many of these problems is rap music and thug culture. And ... whose fault is that Ironic, isn't it?

But, the part of Cosby's argument that appeals to many is his statement that "we can't blame white people any longer." The problem with his statement is that it's about 20 years toolate. It's a post Miami Vice world. The black youth of today, many born after 1985, don't have any idea of the Civil Rights Movement, etc. I get to meet and deal with a lot of them, and they don't blame "white people" for anything in particular. Otoh, they don't feel that they owe white (or black) people anything either. So, look around. You'll see Cambodian, Chinese and Albanian kids wearing their hats turned around. My own kids wore baggy pants until they grew up. The sham-o-tam and beret that I wore in the 60s were packed away a long time ago, too.

Anyway, my two points are simple: 1) black youth may do many things, but they don't do it because anyone is white or because they are black; 2) a person's race never explains his actions; 3) white, brown, yellow and black Americans get tattoos, dress like thugs, talk street, for many reasons, but none are genetic or have genetic solutions.

Whoever thinks so should try to treat some of the people who appear on Jerry Springer.

[chud]

I hate the whole thug hip-hop culture, no matter what race the person is who's wearing/speaking it. Rock on Bill Cosby...

Edit: Oh, and you kids, get off my lawn!!!

[Walter Joyce]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the kid who brought the shell casing to his grammar school have his baseball cap on backwards in someone's avatar?

[Darthwing Teorist]

LOL! Walter for the kill.

[qiphlow]

the fad of thug culture is because of the record companies promoting that over other forms of hip hop. why they choose to do that (besides the fact that it sells) i have no idea.
backward baseball caps and baggy pants are probably no more than the latest fashion fad for teens who want to be cool and hip.
as for the kids who can't read or speak "mainstream" english, i agree that the parents ought to be the first line of education. but this is a problem that's not likely to be solved here on da flowah.

[Steve James]

the fad of thug culture is because of the record companies promoting that over other forms of hip hop. why they choose to do that (besides the fact that it sells) i have no idea.

Er, you gave the answer, "it sells." Could probably go deeper and say that, like the minstrel shows, it serves a social function of reinforcing the perceptions of others. Put it like this, that is often how it functions in our society. One set of kids turn their hats backwards and, in some minds, it proves something about "them." Another group turns theirs around or inside out and they can be called "rally caps."

as for the kids who can't read or speak "mainstream" english, i agree that the parents ought to be the first line of education. but this is a problem that's not likely to be solved here on da flowah.

Well, 90% of the kids who make it in the business "could" speak Standard English as well as anyone on da flowah. But, what fun would that be for them? It's hard to find teenagers who talk like their parents or who want their parents to understand --even if they thought they could. Ever see "Wild in the Sreets"? If you did, you remember the phrase "Never trust anyone over 30."

Besides, everybody knows that it's comic books, slasher films, grundge rock and tv that have messed up our kids .... not hip hop.


or, even from back in the day,

[Michael]

Wild in the Streets (1968) was a wild movie. With Obama's 2 million strong youth brigade of armed, teenage police/brown shirts/red guards, it (it being life depicted in the movie) is not that far out.

Steve, is this what you mean by sham-o-tam?

[affa]

1) black youth may do many things, but they don't do it because anyone is white or because they are black; 2) a person's race never explains his actions

even if you define race as a socially constructed, relational category (which you should ), doesn't the fact that people lumped into that category tend to share some radically disparate socio-economic circumstances (in the U.S. anyway) tend to point the causal finger at that category? or more properly, at the situations involved in people making it a category?

[Steve James]

Well, no, first of all, the people within the category have never defined it. Does the perception of a given category mean that the category exists? As a philosopher, I would say no. I think it's natural to organize the world into categories, but people are individuals. I.e., you could group peole who wear their hats backward together, and then you'd have the category of "backward wearing hat" people. The fact that the members of the category speak different languages, look different, etc., doesn't mean that the category is invalid. However, the general category is neither the product nor the result of how the members of the category speak, look, or dress.

Simply put, black people aren't alike because a black person is telling you so. Of course, no amount of telling will convince people to disabuse themselves of their categorizations. So, you have the Ed.D Cosby talking about how uneducated his people are. To which, the semi-literates say "Amen."

[Steve James]

Steve, is this what you mean by sham-o-tam?

Yep, the tartan one (black watch), if possible, but the pure black ones made of wool were the best. They went went my black cashmere coat.

[affa]

Well, no, first of all, the people within the category have never defined it.

who said anything about the people within the category defining it?

Does the perception of a given category mean that the category exists? As a philosopher, I would say no.

sure it exists. it exists as a perception of a category and a predisposition to behave a certain way toward perceived members of that category.

the general category is neither the product nor the result of how the members of the category speak, look, or dress.

sure it is... the category is defined over a single property that all members of the extension share - wearing a hat. but i get your point, and agree - the reason we made that "natural" categorical distinction in the first place is because we have some belief that the property of wearing a hat points to some some other underlying and essential property... in this case... "predisposed to act like a thug," or whatever.

and that's exactly what i was talking about when i said that "the category" surely had some causal role in socio-economic disparities. (many) white people treat black people in a certain way, based on a categorical belief. (many) black people treat white people in a certain way, based on a categorical belief about white people's categorical beliefs. and vice versa, in all possibly recursed permutations. that's what i meant by a "relational category"

[Michael]

I think it's natural to organize the world into categories, but people are individuals. I.e., you could group peole who wear their hats backward together, and then you'd have the category of "backward wearing hat" people.

It's about as useful as Dr. Seuss' "star-bellied finches".

/rant on

How can we believe in and achieve equality if we depend on the mental constructs, such as racism, of those who purposely divide us for their own ends? We can't. All of the artificial constructs that divide us have serious logical limitations, e.g., quantifying race: where do you start measuring?, and always require violence for their sustenance, e.g., slavery. Individuals as equals makes sense where all the categories collapse due to shoddy construction. Why be afraid of freedom?

/rant over