Extrasensory Situational Awareness

[I-mon]

I offered what I thought were a few constructive methods on page four, but Chris didn't notice them. Maybe he doesn't like me?

[DeusTrismegistus]

After reading Brian's post, it is very pragmatic and empirical. Also quite simple and not requiring any particular esoteric understanding in order to begin practicing it. All very, very good things. However, there's still no real hint of how any skills so developed would be contextualized or mapped onto the context of combat duress. We're just getting started talking specifics, though, so I'll be patient and see how it develops.

Maybe you missed this post but I think it is more information than anyone else has given on bringing it into the fighty world.
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14580&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=90#p252171

[UniTaichi]

A case where 'everyone is unaware that everyone is aware(in their own way)'

Cheers,
D

[UniTaichi]

A case where 'everyone is unaware that everyone is aware(in their own way)'

Cheers,
D

My bad. Should be ' A case where everyone is unaware that everyone is aware ? (in their own way)

Cheers,
D

[Chris McKinley]

[I-mon,

Your post was great, too, and there were the seeds of what could eventually be some really spot-on stuff there. But it's the same case as Bhassler's post. You provide some very generalized good advice for some proprioceptive development (which is, to be fair, a whole lot better than most people's typical advice about zhan zhuang), but really nothing which specifically relates to anything not completely explainable by non-paranormal means. All of what you discuss develops normal sensory perception, in very useful ways, I should add, and I am a big fan of what you are prescribing and would even like to see a separate thread for it. Unfortunately though, there's still no discussion of what will develop extra-sensory perception, which is the topic of the thread. Also as with Brian's post, there's also no discussion of how to contextualize that skill set to the context of combat.]


[Deus,

Your post was even more general and abstract. For context here, you know I'm a big fan of your work and your posts, so if anything, I'm wanting to like it. And I do, in the most general sense, but again, nothing you mention has anything at all to do with extra-sensory perception. You name a few specific goals in that post (i.e., start to open and still the mind, the mind learns to be quiet and open yet aware and focused, try to bring that mindset, the mental feeling, into your solo fighting work, bring it into your two person work, bring the meditative mindset into the 2 man drills and finally into sparring), and all really good ones perhaps in that they are contextualizing goals, but nothing at all about how one might go about doing that, nor how to develop the skills in the first place, nor necessarily even what those skills are.]


Perhaps the bottom line about the thread as a whole is that there's so much rapport based on agreement going on that everybody thinks we're all talking about the same thing, why it's good, and how you get it. But there's no evidence that we actually are. We have yet to even define the skill set in anything close to a specific way and that we can all objectively agree on. So far, what limited discussion there has been about methodology has all been about entirely normal sensory perception....nothing "extra-" about any of it. And so far, absolutely no one has offered even a hint of methodology regarding how we might go about contextualizing any of it to the duress of actual combat. Now all that's okay if we are limiting the thread to being a general advocacy piece....sort of a "this ESP stuff is neat, you should check it out!" kinda thing. But if we're purporting to discuss its role in and development for the context of real combat, then at some point in the discussion it needs to be defined as to what it even is so we're not all talking about a dozen different things (which we very well may be so far), a framework needs to be laid out in specific empirical terms for obtaining it (which requires no prior belief), and a method needs to be described for the contextualizing of that newly developed skill set into the context of combat (which includes extreme physiological duress that can never be fully nor permanently removed from the equation).

[BruceP]

Bhassler, thanks for sharing your own take and especially your experiences with those ideas.

The improv drill is pretty damn cool. Lots going on with that on many levels. I can see how it would help the participants develop a deeper awareness of an immediate situation, as well as being able to do a quick read of both the direction the collective is heading in and the intention each individual is operating on. Our group will have to give it a go.

Thanks again

[Chris McKinley]

I also would suggest that there are enough good ideas being put forth here to warrant a separate thread for each or any of them. It may or may not involve anything supernatural, paranormal, or extra-sensory, but could be very valuable just the same.

[Doc Stier]

Unfortunately though, there's still no discussion of what will develop extra-sensory perception, which is the topic of the thread.

Well, actually, there has been repeated reference to various methods that will develop such skills, but you and others choose not to give them any credence, since the methods referenced apparently don't fit your intellectual paradigm.

Furthermore, I marvel at how you state that you don't have the answers, and yet you jump in here and set yourself up as usual to be the voice of authority who will say what is sufficient or wanting in this discussion. If your expertise doesn't lie in this area of investigation and training, why should anyone care whether you approve or disapprove of whatever is presented on this thread or give you the final word of authority regarding these topics of discussion.

[BruceP]

sorry for straying off topic

[Chris McKinley]

Which methods would those be, Doc? There has been a lot of discussion but actually very little in terms of reference to actual methods, and every single method thus far described develops normal sensory perception, not extra-sensory. I claim no authority here....as usual, you're projecting your own personal bullshit onto me as a distraction from the critical points made because your ability to answer the arguments put forth is weak. Note: it requires no reference to the logical fallacy of authority to point out that a claim that ESP is useful for and can be trained for the context of real combat could reasonably be expected to provide at least a sample of the methodology used to achieve that specific quality or skill set (and no, methods which develop normal sensory perception do not count since such is not the claim being made). It ought also to provide at least minimal specific reference to exactly how that newly developed skill set could then be properly contextualized for combat since a skill set not so-contextualized would be utterly worthless for the purpose made by the original claim. Now, either a) you don't know how to provide that contextualization and you're merely attempting to distract from addressing that valid request, or b) you do know but are unwilling to provide that information, or c) you do know and you're just being especially tardy in providing it given that we're up to nine pages now and still no sign of it.

[Doc Stier]

Whatever!

I have openly stated previously on this thread that no one should take my word as fact or final authority, but have advised instead that the suggestions offered be investigated through experiential trial by any interested individual. That being said, attempts to discount or dismiss the suggested mental training methods by individuals who are unable to accept them as credible and unwilling to investigate them via personal experience appears to be both arrogant and ignorant.

[Chris McKinley]

That ad hominem criticism of appearing arrogant and ignorant can be equally, and just as uselessly, leveled at someone making an extraordinary claim but not being willing to provide any specifics to support that claim. There may be those who dismiss the possibility of such phenomena, and further even possibly for the claimed specific context. For the record, I am not and have not been one of them. I am simply asking for specific evidence to support a very extraordinary claim. Intellectual honesty would require me to do that just as fervently whether I believed in the phenomena or did not.

[BruceP]

lol okay...

Not sure if this drill offers anything in the way of contextualization, but it's one I immediately thought of while reading through the first couple of pages on this thread last week. The drill addresses the failure that occurs when we feel/sense something isn't right but we disregard or ignore that feeling and continue along anyway. Always with the failure...

We've been using this drill in our group for a bunch of years and it's evolved from the basic 'sucker-punch' drill it started out as into a series of step drills for exploring the subtle aspects of encroachment and mobbing, among other things. Without going into all the different variations we've worked up using the idea, I'll just outline the basic set-up.

There are different roles assumed in the drill depending on who is involved and how many. It works on different things depending on the context. Everyone's first experience with it has themselves as the unwitting 'subject' and everyone else as either bystanders or participants. The effect is much different if the subject has worked through it before and kind of knows what to expect than when they don't know that anything is even going on. For first-timers, one person in the group creates a pretext of some sort of postural analysis and asks the first-timer to hold a piece of paper, magazine, book, whatever, at eye level with their elbows touching their ribs and read aloud until they've finished the page.

As they're reading a few others close in, encircle, or whatever to apply a little bit of pressure. It works best if only two or three people 'surround' the subject - one behind, one off to one side and the other in front or flanking. Some people will naturally pause at some point but are immediately encouraged (using subtle and casual tone) to keep reading. Point of failure? At any rate, most will continue reading whether they go into a state of high-alert or not.

For those who have done the drill before, the context can be made more specific accordingly. They suspect something's going to go down...maybe, maybe not...but they're not sure. It doesn't have to involve the subtle pressures of encroachment or being surrounded. It can be a one-on-one drill.

As a sucker-punch drill, it usually leads to someone getting hit. As an encroachment drill, maybe the same, maybe not. Intent is the main focus once everyone in the group has done the basic variations. Sometimes the intent is 'goal oriented' as in mugging, assault, etc, and sometimes it's hidden or very subtle. And sometimes it's nothing more than everyone intending to move through the space to get to where they want to go beyond it. Lots of different energetic combinations can be explored with the drill. Nothing special really, just wanted to reciprocate Bhassler's contribution to the thread.

[Doc Stier]

Clearly, some of us approach this topic from much different points of view, and some see and hear only what they already believe to be the truth of the matter, so perhaps we will simply have to agree to disagree.

It has been my personal experience that non-sensory awareness can be and is developed through self-disciplined mental training, such as Raja Yoga or other legitimate meditation methods, which quiet and calm the conscious mind in order to allow the subconscious mental faculties to perceive and respond to non-sensory data being projected from external sources. It has also been my experience that such awareness and response automatically occurs in emergency circumstances, including personal assault situations, in which life and limb are threatened by unexpected, hidden dangers that were neither seen nor heard in advance of the event.

If any of you disbelieve in the possibility of developing a similar ability to allow such awareness to work for you in similar circumstances, or choose not to investigate the methods suggested for exploring such phenomenon, I don't care. Please suit yourself.

[Chris McKinley]

Bingo! Thanks, Shooter. May or may not be extra-sensory, but at least we're starting to talk about the subject on the level where it actually happens and matters. Just talking about how groovy it is to calm the mind, develop subtler perceptive capabilities, or even flat-out to develop ESP, is all completely pointless to the context if the moment you find yourself in the shitbox in a real street assault set up by professional predators, the adrenaline blast renders all that stuff as useless as your ability to do convincing celebrity impersonations.