Extrasensory Situational Awareness

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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:49 am

Careful there, Doc. Embracing being part of the team and embracing paranormal phenomena as a criterion for acceptance are not only two different things, the latter would be completely erroneous as an assertion. Also, we're now seven pages into this thread and there's still no actual discussion of practical methodology. The closest we've seen seems to be more of an infomercial for meditation practices. Almost like buying a video where all the guy says is, "My stuff is great! You should buy more videos from me!"

Even giving you full benefit of the doubt, Doc, I suggest we're at a point in the discussion where it might be time to pony up and describe, even cursorily, some of the actual practices used to cultivate this particular skill set, rather than continue to simply promote their worthiness for that function. Now, perhaps you're leaving it up to others to toss in their ideas first, and that would be fine, except for the fact that only one poster, Shooter, has thus far offered to post any methodology at all, and no one is taking him up on it anyway.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:07 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:Careful there, Doc. Embracing being part of the team and embracing paranormal phenomena as a criterion for acceptance are not only two different things, the latter would be completely erroneous as an assertion.

Perhaps you have more practical experience than I do, but I don't consider the team mindset to be paranormal or unusual at all. From my point of view, it is completely normal and ordinary in the circumstances faced by small teams in the field, and thus not an erroneous assertion.

Furthermore, there are a number of viable methods of mental training, all of which are admittedly meditative in nature, which can be used to investigate these phenomenon systematically and thoroughly. Each individual must choose for themselves which of these methods best suits them personally.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Cryptohominid on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:27 pm

Doc Stier wrote:Just because some incidents of awareness, reaction or response manifest via extrasensory processes, without conscious awareness or direction, doesn't mean that such phenomenon are magical, mystical or unnatural! :-\


You misread me. I was asserting that the most parsimonious explanation for these events requires no "extrasensory" processes. We get all the information we need through the regular sensory channels.

Chris,

I hinted at this earlier, but I'll throw in my 2 cents briefly in the spirit of your last comment.

After having learned a fair number of distinct meditation practices along the way, as my thought on these matters has evolved (along with my practical experience) I now practice only two meditative methods. I find both are helpful with martial arts and life in general, and do not involve any suspension of disbelief on my part.

1. What I call "self psychology". I often use the houses of the Gao system, but there are plenty of other sources for the foundations. Suffice to say, I sit or lie and actively visualize concepts that are difficult and/or can distract and plague the mind, such as danger, my own death and dissolution, or joy. Doing so over time helps me to not be distracted by my desires or fears when trying to accomplish something in the present. I have found this very useful in violent situations where fear of death or injury (or even "why me" type thoughts) can paralyze you in the moment.

2. I simply sit and quiet the mind. Over time I have learned to do this fairly at will (although it can be difficult to sustain for very long). By learning to enter this brain state fairly reliably I have found benefits for spontaneity of action, reaction time, breath control, relaxed power, and other effects that can directly aid in fighting.

If it sound simple...it is. But it does take practice.

As for anything I could classify as paranormal (levitation, psychic abilities, et al) not a whisper in 20+ years.

I must be doing it wrong. Damn! ;)
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:34 pm

The "team mindset" is not paranormal, that is correct. It also doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the topic of this thread, either. You mentioned it in response to Deus's question regarding specifically extra-sensory phenomena, thereby implying that extra-sensory perception is part and parcel of the team mindset and/or team training, neither of which is true. Professional training is such that the topic of this thread may simply never even come up, nevermind that a stance might be taken on it either way, nor further yet that it would make its way into the training protocols. Operators' personal beliefs are their own, as guaranteed by the first amendment, and they are free to believe whatever they wish about this subject and of course even to pursue it in their own free time, but there is no formal recognition of such phenomena as codified into official training protocols.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:40 pm

Thanks for that, Cryptohominid. Your #1 sounds like a mix of mental rehearsal with biofeedback, a very potent exercise for all sorts of human endeavors. As for #2, I've learned to do that after battling with insomnia for many years. Every night for the past 15 years, that's been part of a nightly self-hypnosis routine I do that's every bit as 'Twilight Zone' as this thread's topic, but is entirely non-paranormal.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Bhassler on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:57 pm

Shooter wrote: It'd be cool to read about ideas others might have for working up some drills or two-person work for no other purpose than to explore a blind alley. What can it hurt?

I have some ideas for drills I can post if someone is willing to actually try them and report their findings.


Hey Shooter,

Your post elicited some thoughts in a random sort of way that may or may not be in line with where you're going, but I thought I'd throw them out there in case something relevant crops up.

One of the big skills in my mind for both awareness and having a nicer life is the practice of seeing people as they are and not as we project them to be. Things like personal status, respect, fears, etc. all play into the filters you mentioned, and it's important to realize that other people have them, too. Sometimes when we have conflict it's because one or both sides are unable to communicate (or sometimes even acknowledge) what their underlying human needs are from the interaction. I find that most of what happens really has very little to do with me, and by not taking things personally I am able to gracefully and with relatively little stress resolve situations that other people consider quite difficult. A big part of this is actually listening-- and that means not responding either internally or externally until we've heard that the other person has to communicate.

So to make it practical, the big one is just to really try and see and be genuine with people in day to day life, and that includes family, friends, spouses, strangers, and everyone. Maybe a progression of that would be talking to scary people. Scary people can be scary because they're dirty, dangerous, beautiful, powerful, smart, or whatever, so it doesn't necessarily have to entail physical risk, although a bit of risk to one's self-image would be nice.

Regular scenario training can work, too, but the de-escalation language has to move beyond the standard setting boundaries and cultivating witnesses to actually recognizing that this is a disturbed person and trying to help them in a small way one person to another (even if that's just calming them down for 5 seconds). I've dealt with enough angry people in real life that I was able to do this sort of thing in scenario training as the "good guy," but I imagine it would take a pretty good bad guy/bulletman type to make it really powerful for the general populace in running a training.

I believe this type of habit starts to allow someone to see through the bullshit that people project, and allows for clearer signals when something doesn't add up. Plus it develops the habit of being aware of people in general.

As far as general observation, one trick is to remember things in order. So if walking down an aisle in the grocery store, at the end of the aisle and without looking back, try to remember everything on the shelves starting from the other end of the aisle and going through sequentially. Or after a workout, try to remember everything you did in the order that you did it. Not so challenging for lifting weights, but maybe interesting for a round of sparring or push hands or application work or whatever.

For a team-building type activity, here's something from my theater days: Have a group of people stand in a circle, and start tossing a ball around the circle to each other randomly and without talking. After a while, add a ball. Then another ball. Continue and periodically add balls as long as the group is successful. Pretty soon you get to where you have more balls than people and can keep up a good, fast pace. It's an interesting group dynamic, because there's a lot of unconscious communication that has to happen very quickly.

So those are all things that help to build the field and some underlying skills for the more esoteric stuff, but are not esoteric in and of themselves.
What I'm after isn't flexible bodies, but flexible brains.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:59 pm

Cryptohominid wrote:
Science does explain this. Aside from hyper pattern recognition and the furious ret-conning we all do with our mental picture of our lives, this is the main principle at play in these instances:

http://www.skepdic.com/lawofnumbers.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0im1v/donettesteelepsychology/id11.html

You know, if anyone is interested...


Sure, this could also explain it.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:06 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:The "team mindset" is not paranormal, that is correct. It also doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the topic of this thread, either....there is no formal recognition of such phenomena as codified into official training protocols.

Nor does it necessarily NOT have something to do with the topic of this thread. It is a phenomenon that occurs spontaneously and naturally when working together under stress, rather than as a result of being part of a formal training program protocol. :P

So, once again, do you have anything relevant to add to this topic, or are you just stirring the waters here? Or just referencing your own training programs....again! ::)
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:26 pm

I tossed in my two cents already. I'm not making reference to anything about the training I offer here. I'm merely pointing out that you have had several pages now of cool pictures and advocacy for this type of training, but essentially no discussion of exactly what that training is. With all the generalities and abstractions thus far, I'm almost kinda wondering if you yourself might offer something relevant to add. If one is going to ostensibly and repeatedly make the claim that extrasensory perception training has a role in dealing with real life-threatening assaults, then it would seem appropriate to address the methodology for achieving such when specifically asked for it. We're now eight pages in and only Cryptohominid has offered anything specific at all, and he's been the biggest dissenting objector so far to the entire concept.

You have advocated quite clearly and perhaps even quite satisfactorily for the skill set, at least to those sympathetic to the idea. What I have not seen from you yet is your particular favored/recommended methodology for achieving this skill set described in any practical/empirical way. IOW, for those interested in the concept and sold by your advocacy, they might reasonably ask, "Okay, but what do I actually do, specifically?" If you don't care to make this a discussion of methodology, but merely an apologetic or advocacy piece for the concept in the most abstract and general terms, that's okay, but it wasn't made clear in the OP that that was the intent.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:21 pm

Image

"Concentration, when developed, becomes meditation. Concentration is mental focusing. The mind can be focused on a concrete object or an abstract idea. For a novice, concentration becomes easy if the object of concentration is concrete. Also, the beginner should choose a pleasing object on which to concentrate. Only thus can he prevent the mind from wandering away from the object of concentration.

To start with, concentration can be practiced on the flame of a candle, the tick-tick sound of a clock, a star in the sky, the symbol of OM, etc.... This should be followed by concentration on a suitable spiritual center within the body. The Sadhak may concentrate with closed eyes on the space between the eyebrows, or on the tip of the nose. There is nothing which cannot be achieved by concentration.

Concentration should be followed by meditation. Meditation is nothing but protracted or sustained concentration.

While meditating on a particular object or idea, various extraneous thoughts will try to enter the mind of the aspirant and interfere with his meditation. The aspirant should ignore these extraneous thoughts, be indifferent to them and repeatedly try to concentrate on the object of his meditation. Gradually, the frequency of interruption will be reduced and a time will come when meditation will give uninterrupted peace...Enquiry opens the aspirant's eyes to new vistas of knowledge.

Where the necessary preparation is inadequate or wanting, meditation cannot succeed. Simply sitting cross-legged and closing the eyes, thinking the same worldly thoughts and building castles in the air, or falling into a semi-sleep is not meditation."

Excerpts from the writings of Sri N. Ananthanarayanan
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:45 pm

Okay, so now we have the kernel of an idea, methodologically. Perhaps it's a good place to start, and everybody's got to start somewhere. However, there's a huge gulf between spending time developing one's ability to meditate on one hand, and contextualizing that capability specifically for the extreme duress of a real life-or-death assault on the other. This information by itself is nothing close to sufficient for that task, so the next question becomes, "What is the next step toward closing that gap and contextualizing these meditative skills for use in combat?"
Last edited by Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:18 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:Okay, so now we have the kernel of an idea, methodologically. Perhaps it's a good place to start, and everybody's got to start somewhere. However, there's a huge gulf between spending time developing one's ability to meditate on one hand, and contextualizing that capability specifically for the extreme duress of a real life-or-death assault on the other. This information by itself is nothing close to sufficient for that task, so the next question becomes, "What is the next step toward closing that gap and contextualizing these meditative skills for use in combat?"

Great question! :)

From your expert perspective as a professional combat skills trainer, what do you consider to be a sufficient answer? -shrug-
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby affa on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:34 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:only Cryptohominid has offered anything specific at all

did you miss bhassler? i thought his points were pretty darn constructive... -cheer-
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:08 pm

Doc,

I wouldn't know, since I don't train these particular skills when working with professionals. While I have used and trained some rather unique methods with certain personnel, they were in no way paranormal nor are they typical of how I train all personnel.

affa,

I did indeed miss both Bhassler's post and jonathan.bluestein's post. When I pulled the forum up on my Iphone, both of those posts were omitted, with Doc's reply occurring immediately after mine. Odd.
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Re: Extrasensory Situational Awareness

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:13 pm

After reading Brian's post, it is very pragmatic and empirical. Also quite simple and not requiring any particular esoteric understanding in order to begin practicing it. All very, very good things. However, there's still no real hint of how any skills so developed would be contextualized or mapped onto the context of combat duress. We're just getting started talking specifics, though, so I'll be patient and see how it develops.
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