Shooting in Florida

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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Kato on Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:12 pm

Okay, maybe it's my imagination, but I distinctly hear him saying "fucking coons" just after the 2:20 mark.

Let me make a few things clear here. I don't care that this guy is or isn't racist. I don’t care that he or any nonfelonous citizen has the right to bare arms. I don’t care about Florida’s stand your ground laws.

What concerns me is that this guy left his property, and chased an unarmed man down, putting himself in a situation of threat, and then used deadly force to answer an imagined threat.
This case IMHO does not constitute standing your ground. The defender is actually the aggressor, and he should not be protected by the law.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:29 pm

Beegs ... It's ok ... It's a free country... And we keep moving forward... Don't be afraid we'll get there.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby gzregorz on Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:34 pm

beegs wrote:so because the kid is black it must be racial? the shooter is spanish and white, the shooter also called cops 40 something times on people in the past few weeks what race were they? sounds like people are quick to pull a race issue again. Its a tragedy and the gun law their with shooting in self defense has made shootings rise, and this guy sounds like he was a paranoid nut calling cops so many times etc.

now an innocent kid is gone, sad shit, but before race is the issue lets make sure it was racially motivated,


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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Um, a guy with a gun shoots a guy (who has every right to be where he was) after he has followed the guy claiming he was acting suspicious and was holding something in his hand. He called the cops, and they said they didn't want him to pursue the kid, who was now running (from someone who had no legal authority to ask him anything or pursue him). The kid had no legal responsibility to speak to any (strange) adult. The guy with the gun then claims that the kid attacked him and he had to "stand his ground" and defend himself.

So, those are undisputed facts at the moment. Yep, the guy who got shot was black. He was followed because someone said he was acting suspiciously. Now, what that meant to the guy who shot him is something that only the guy knows. But, in any case, he was not charged or arrested. My conclusion is that ____ people should carry guns and shoot first when confronted by _____ civilians.

Of course, this is just exaggeration, more "race" card pulling, based on political correctness. Yep, and if a 28 year-old 220lb Black guy shoots a 120lb 17 year-old White guy going to visit his father in his neighborhood, everyone will understand that it had to be self-defense. I mean. It'd be obvious. Right? His word would be enough.

Btw, I am watching FOX "News" channel right now, and the top story is that Whitney Houston had cocaine in her bloodstream and that she died from accidentally drowning. The next story is about the mysterious booming sounds heard in some midwest town. I'm going to watch through the next ad cycle and let you know what happens.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Ok, the first story is about the death of Andrew Breitbart. A fund is being started in his name.
Second story, it's about Solyndra and Obama's energy policy.
The banner running underneath is about the French terrorist who was shot.
Now it's about FEDEX hiring agreement, the result of some suits.
Now, they're polling some people in bikinis on the beach about Obama.
Now, the story is about a deaf dog (Kiefer) who they want someone to adopt.
Ok, the segment is over, and no mention at all of the case in Florida.
The new show "Special Report" starts with a story about the drop in crude oil.
The banner is about an "ethnic Tuareg rebellion" --something all Americans should be interested in.
Anyway, that's enough. I'm out of FOX patience. The story now is about how Obama is accepting an oil deal.
(The Republicans say that he's taking credit for something they would do anyway). Ok, really, had enough.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:28 pm

Probably wasn't racially motivated, probably just self loathing of his own mixed blood.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:41 pm

Ya know, people throw around "racially motivated." In this case, it's not necessary to care about race at all. The guy, Zimmerman, doesn't need to be charged with a "hate" crime, and then people try to find evidence about how much he hated Black people. The fact is that he followed the kid. Suppose you were walking along, minding your own business, talking on your cellphone, and someone comes up and asks you where you're going? What would you do? Ok, so you answer. Or, you say, "Fuck off." Then, the guy comes up to you (let's assume you don't run--even at the sight of a gun), and you turn around and walk toward him. Who attacked whom? Ok, suppose you run toward the guy .... to (?)... confront the guy with your phone or the Skittles? Who was wrong?
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Interloper on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:03 pm

I don't have television access, so my news comes from the radio and Internet. Google, being selective in what it opts to show me, has presented ABC news online as the first on the list, followed by CBS news online, New York Daily News's web version, Huffington Post online, and then a plethora of lesser-known news blogs, e-news sites and organizations' bulletins. Nothing from Fox on the 'net, but to balance that, I listen to NPR all day while I work, there has been nothing at all in any NPR news or talk shows since the day of the shooting.

I'm amazed and shocked that there is such limited coverage and discourse. This is such a blatant case of a shmuck getting away with murder, that the lack of media outrage is nauseating.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Interloper on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Update/edit. As I typed the above, the PBS Nightly News Hour just came on (it's a TV program that is aired over my local public radioo station... no picture, but plenty of words) and the Trayvon Martin case is the top story -- focus being on public outrage. The story is being reported as I type this.

The reporter is reprising the story, and they are airing the soundtrack of the loud protests being held. Now the sheriff of the city of Sanford, Fla. is commenting on his decision to step down in the face of the situation.

They now are promoting change.com (website) where people can sign a petition to argue for George Zimmerman's arrest. And a panel of experts and media professionals are providing an analysis. Interesting and decent coverage.
Last edited by Interloper on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:11 pm

So, turned back to FOX and there's a special report. The Sheriff of the town in FL has just stepped down. It's the front line story now. The main topic is the 'stand your ground' controversy.
Ok, now the story is about the Afghan massacre.

I turned to the PBS channel. There, the guy who wrote the Fl "stand your ground" law agrees that it does not apply in this case. He says you can't follow someone --with a gun, then claim self-defense. He points to the problem of stereotyping --and I would add giving unqualified, unstable people weapons.

Where I agree with the "stand your ground" idea is that, imo, it would have been perfectly legitimate for the young guy to shoot the guy following him. Philosophically, I disagree with doing so or carrying a weapon in preparation for that necessity. But, to be practical, ya know what they say, "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Right?
Last edited by Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Interloper on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:14 pm

The PBS News Hour story is still going on, longer than 10 minutes at this point, with the panel analyzing and discussing the situation.One of the panelists said, "...there is nothing that boy could have done to be safe, except not be black."

Edit: Okay, the story was 18 minutes in length. It just finished up.
While I was listening, I searched online for some Fox News coverage, and came up with:
1. The opinion page of Fox News Online, with Florida State Rep. Dennis Baxley writing an "op ed."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/ ... law-wrote/

2. Surprise, surprise: a story on Fox News's lack of coverage of the Trayvon Martin murder:
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz- ... in-killing

3. An actual story from the "Latino" department of Fox News (I guess the "non-Latino" department of Fox News wasn't getting involved ...), posted 9 hours ago. It does, of course, focus on the fact that Zimmerman is Latino (which is a loaded label, since "Latino" can range from Spanish-speaking Mexican Native to Caucasian Euro-Spaniard and a gazillion other "groups" in between:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2 ... york-city/
Last edited by Interloper on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby yeniseri on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:20 pm

beegs wrote:so because the kid is black it must be racial? the shooter is spanish and white, the shooter also called cops 40 something times on people in the past few weeks what race were they? sounds like people are quick to pull a race issue again. Its a tragedy and the gun law their with shooting in self defense has made shootings rise, and this guy sounds like he was a paranoid nut calling cops so many times etc.

now an innocent kid is gone, sad shit, but before race is the issue lets make sure it was racially motivated,


It isn't racial! The shooter isn't Spanish (he speaks Spanish, is probably from Cenral America or Mexico and he is isn't white) is mestizo, appears to speak English and has the mindset of wanna be something so he assume the facade! He is definately the aggressor, by maliciously following with malice aforethought, a young American and making the assumption that the young America did not belong there. All those assumptions were the shooter's and his lying was corroborated by the local sherrif's office under the guise of Holding One's Ground against someone armed with Skitttles and Iced Tea! The shooter was told to disengage, i.e not to follow..............
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Wanderingdragon on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:26 pm

You are so right Steve just prosecute on the facts, but that won't be allowed on either side of the fence, even the most common sense, intelligent, unbiased, prosecutor will be baffled by the amount of profiling used in this mans defense, and the kind of illogical logic a jury will be danced around to confuse the facts of this case.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Steve James on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:39 pm

It is my sincere belief that the problem is that there are people who have no faith that the case has been or will be prosecuted on the basis of the facts. Yep, many of those people are Black people; but, they're certainly not alone, especially in this case. The first people to speak out against Zimmerman were the (White) neighbors who were witnesses. I don't think that this case is one, like OJ, where there will be racial "sides" taken. But, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't arrested at first almost guaranteed that the Black community would see "racism" at work. Nope, not Zimmerman's, it was the police department that accepted his story that illustrates "racism." Like I said, if Z had been arrested, it would have been only about him.
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Re: Shooting in Florida

Postby Chris McKinley on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:32 pm

Just in the interests of accuracy, Fox News has run the story in every single hourly update all day long and Shepard Smith did nearly the whole hour on this story alone, with a panel of attorneys discussing literally the very same legal issues as have been already referenced and with an interview with the very same guest who wrote the bill for Florida. MSNBC and CNN have run equivalently in-depth coverage all day as well. The story isn't getting a lack of appropriate attention anywhere.
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