Note to Buddy, MikeC, Mike Strong, Steelincotton, others

[klonk]

Nobody seems focused on the real issue here. Freddie and Fannie were government creations, and were governed by political policy desires as well as financial realities. For example, we have to get rid of redlining. Why? It's racist and unfair. Never was the race card worse misplayed. Most default borrowers, like most Americans, are white.

The race thing was never the issue in the mortgage business, not the black thing, only the green thing. If you are poor habitually and not a good credit risk, it may be social inequities that did it to you, or it may be something else, but either way, lending you a pile of money on a government backed loan is only a good idea if you think the government is in business to play Santa Claus and pick up bad paper.

The whole scheme was a time bomb from the moment it was created. It was created for the purpose of interfering with free market forces. That's the point not to overlook, and the short take away lesson for this whole fiasco.

[chud]

Klonk, I think you and I said the same thing, but in different ways.
To carry your point a little further, the bad thing that has happened now is that, due to the bailouts, many firms are becoming quasi-government agencies, sort of like how Fannie and Freddie were. We saw how well that worked out, so what makes anyone think it will work any better now? The best thing to do was to let free market forces prevail and allow all of these firms to fail. It would make things very very bad for all of us for a while, but it would cause a permanent correction in the reckless behavior that we have been seeing, not just a temporary one like we have seen in the past.
Btw, this has nothing to do with republican or democrat, white or black, this is about greed and gov't intervention.

[klonk]

I'll agree this far, making me the guarantor of loans I had no part in, and would not have underwritten if they were brought to me as a private investor, just damned well stinks!

Edit to add: I am not sure that bailouts make things any better, because they weaken the economy in other areas. At best they slow the impact, but the impact of broken promises on loans is not something that just goes away when you wave a pen at it. The money we are all out as a result of a bailout is diverted from free market circulation. I will not direct its use, I would have spent my share on Beijing duck at the restaurant and the fellow who raises the ducks and the fellow who pumps them up and roasts them are both SOL on this deal. Tanstaafl!

[Walter Joyce]

Call me a canary in a coal mine, but most of the people named in this thread went on my ignore list a long time ago. You may say I am an ostrich by avoiding them in this fashion, but most of their posts are designed to inflame and not enlighten, and sooner or later their method of argument while become ad hominem.

I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, but when their disagreement becomes the basis for insults and name calling I choose to ignore them. Just as everyone is free to express their opinions people are also free to ignore those opinions, especially when presented in a manner designed to incite and denigrate others.

Insulting my intelligence or opinion won't get me to change my mind, if anything it causes me to dig my heels in deeper. I come here to pass the time in a fun or good way in an attempt to share thoughts with those with whom I may have something in common, when it becomes a source of aggravation I tend to tune out for a while. After all, its only an internet forum. I'm left wondering if people would behave in such an acerbic fashion if the conversation were over a beer or a cup of coffee.

I've been able to sort through some challenging issues relating to IMA and politics and relationships here, and for that I am grateful to the mods past and present and to Dave Devere for putting up the forum to begin with as well as the forum members who have helped me to understand through discussion of issues and challenges to the believes I hold.

[C-Hopkins]

I think MLK JR said it best when he concluded it's best to disagree without being violently disagreeable- And I believe that extends to emotional violence as well.

You can say anything to anyone, it's just a matter of how you say it.

Appreciate your point of view Joyce!

[edededed]

Everyone should just keep in mind that they can't know everything - if you think you are 100% correct, you are wrong (unless you are God).

[meeks]

You're an idiot

If you mean I pointed out the fact that instead of listening to the advice of the moderator you started crying about being singled out, yes, I'm an idiot. In the end you've still completely ignored him to continue your attacks on other members.

[MikeC]

You're an idiot

If you mean I pointed out the fact that instead of listening to the advice of the moderator you started crying about being singled out, yes, I'm an idiot.

I called you an idiot who laughs at his own jokes.

In the end you've still completely ignored him to continue your attacks on other members.

Only to smug assholes like yourself who ask for it. If you had minded your own business I wouldn't have called you out.

Mike