It's Obvious: but curious

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It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Steve James on Sun May 18, 2008 10:34 am

I just noticed that there aren't any political threads going on since the last one about Edwards's endorsement of Obama. Anyway, I've been curious about the mantra "McCain by default" ... well, for one thing, it seems to carry more baggage than a freight car. But, also because it seems to ignore the obvious. Hey, who says that, in the end, there won't be an Obama/Clinton ticket? Actually, Hillary suggested it when she began losing primaries to Obama. If she sincerely bought on to the ticket, her supporters would jump on it in a minute.

I don't think that Edwards ws looking for the VP job. He could have endorsed Clinton and strengthened her. At any rate, by making nice with both candidates, he would be set for a cabinet post, and so would Bill Richardson.

Naw, this is too hard to call, but very interesting. Besides, the local elections may be even more important. The Congress is still almost split even, though the Dems have a slight majority. If the majority increases, they'll have the ability to override presidential vetoes.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Royal Dragon on Sun May 18, 2008 11:18 am

If the majority increases, they'll have the ability to override presidential vetoes.

Reply]
That is terrfiying!
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Walter Joyce on Sun May 18, 2008 11:28 am

Royal Dragon wrote:If the majority increases, they'll have the ability to override presidential vetoes.

Reply]
That is terrfiying!


That is our democratic system functioning by use of the checks and balances as established in our constitution.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby I-mon on Mon May 19, 2008 5:25 am

walter joyce hates freedom!
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Walter Joyce on Mon May 19, 2008 5:37 am

I-mon wrote:walter joyce hates freedom!



Damn Skippy, you could have at least put some kind of smiley after that if its supposed to be funny.


like this... ;)

cause I'm left feeling somewhere between ::)

or this :(

or this :-\

maybe even this ;D

but I'll settle for this 8-) -oldman-
The more one sweats during times of peace the less one bleeds during times of war.

Ideology offers human beings the illusion of dignity and morals while making it easier to part with them.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby shawnsegler on Mon May 19, 2008 7:01 am

walter joyce hates freedom!
-lol-
-thx-
-faint-
>:@
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You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby steelincotton on Mon May 19, 2008 8:04 am

Steve, I really don't buy into the McBush by default argument. Since the ideology is almost completely and radically opposite in each camp, it just doesn't make sense to me.

McBush is against pro choice, and wants to roll back Roe vs Wade.
McBush wants to appoint more radical extreme right wingnut Supreme Court Justices so that the republicans can keep their corporate "buddies" safe from prosecution and environmental reforms.
McBush is pro-war-for-profit, and wants to stay there for god knows how long, or until he decides we can win (which is impossible - just like in Nam - nobody wins, everyone loses, but most of all, America loses).
McBush wants to take away health care from working Americans by letting corporations and businesses NOT pay for their employees health insurance anymore; he wants YOU to pay for YOUR OWN health care - hey it's only about 12K a year for a family - lol - ridiculous!
McBush wants to continue the failed foreign policies of George Bush that 80% of Americans are against.
McBush wants to continue the failed economic policies of George bush that 80% of Americans are against. (by the way, McCain has stated that he doesn't understand much about finance and the economy).
McBush is a senior citizen who sees things as they have always been and not how they actually are. The times have changed but he hasn't changed with them. We don't need another senior citizen falling asleep at important meetings and summits like Ronald "give them ketchup for vegetable in the school lunch program" Reagan did!

The democrats stand for the EXACT OPPOSITE on each of these major issues, so anybody who thinks that democrats would ever vote for McBush are buying into a media created falicy. This general election will be won on issues, not swiftboating politics of fear and smear. The trend is clear, and although some dems may not think Obama is the right man, they will still vote Democratic in this election booth (even if they hold their noses while they do so).

The contrast is so extreme in this general election. The choices are so clear this year, moreso than the usual elections. If you want eight more years of economic disaster, war-for-profit, upward rising prices and services, and a skyrocketed health-care system for-profit, than you vote for John McBush. If you want to change these disastrous policies by ending the war and bringing the troops home, addressing the health care problem, investing back into our own country for a change, then Barack Obama is your man. It's clear, at least to me, that Barack Obama will win the general election by double digits - remember you heard it hear first folks!
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Walter Joyce on Mon May 19, 2008 8:05 am

shawnsegler wrote:walter joyce hates freedom!
-lol-
-thx-
-faint-
>:@


Much better, thank you.

8-)
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Steve James on Mon May 19, 2008 8:19 am

steelincotton wrote:Steve, I really don't buy into the McBush by default argument. Since the ideology is almost completely and radically opposite in each camp, it just doesn't make sense to me.


I agree, btw, that the argument doesn't make sense. However, I didn't believe that it was possible for something to go in someone's ear and out of the other without having some effect --until I became a teacher. And, the thing about the "McCain by default" mantra is that, as you point out, it seems like people expecting or accepting 4-8 more years of the same. (Since, no one I've heard use the phrase actually thinks things will be better with McCain). So, it's like someone saying "I guess I'll have to cut off my nose to spite my face." Until I was an adult, I didn't believe that people would do that either. Now, I know better, and it's just curious.

Anyway, like I said, the obvious answer is a combined ticket. But, I'm not confident that will happen either --because people are people.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Royal Dragon on Mon May 19, 2008 9:48 am

The problem I have, is that I feel the Dems will further ruin this country. McBush will maintain the status quoe as they say. In my mind, NO change is much better than bad change.

I am really not looking forward to massive tax increases, and some government career slug telling my doctor how to treat me, even though said guvslug has not only never examined me, but never attended the introduction seminar to Med school, let alone an actual class or got a medical degree. He's just going off a badly zeroxed flow chart on is cluttered desk trying to please his higher up's desires too cotroll medical payouts so his bonus is bigg enough to go to the Bahamas next year.

Once THAT comes around, not only will I have to pay for private health insurance, but I will also have to pay more taxes to cover the Government butcher house...I mean medical system.

We have the best medical system on earth right now, I'd rather leave it as is. McBush is the closest thing to not changing anything we have.

The economy will recover if left alone. It will sink to a level not previously imagined if the Guv starts taxing the crap out of everyone....which is exactly what the Dems will be doing.

To be honest, If I didn't feel the dems posed such a threat,I would not even vote this time around. They all suck.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Bär on Mon May 19, 2008 9:50 am

Yeah the dems last time didn't leave a massive surplus instead of unprecedented debt. So fiscally irresponsible.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Walter Joyce on Mon May 19, 2008 10:03 am

Royal Dragon wrote:The problem I have, is that I feel the Dems will further ruin this country. McBush will maintain the status quoe as they say. In my mind, NO change is much better than bad change.

I am really not looking forward to massive tax increases, and some government career slug telling my doctor how to treat me, even though said guvslug has not only never examined me, but never attended the introduction seminar to Med school, let alone an actual class or got a medical degree. He's just going off a badly zeroxed flow chart on is cluttered desk trying to please his higher up's desires too cotroll medical payouts so his bonus is bigg enough to go to the Bahamas next year.

Once THAT comes around, not only will I have to pay for private health insurance, but I will also have to pay more taxes to cover the Government butcher house...I mean medical system.

We have the best medical system on earth right now, I'd rather leave it as is. McBush is the closest thing to not changing anything we have.

The economy will recover if left alone. It will sink to a level not previously imagined if the Guv starts taxing the crap out of everyone....which is exactly what the Dems will be doing.

To be honest, If I didn't feel the dems posed such a threat,I would not even vote this time around. They all suck.


For most people politics is based on whose ox is being gored from their perspective.

From a systemic viewpoint, the checks and balances are designed to prevent one branch of government from trying to gore the ox without support from the other two branches.

I don't agree with your viewpoint or predictions, but have at it, it is after all a free country.

Don't you just hate that?

;)
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Ideology offers human beings the illusion of dignity and morals while making it easier to part with them.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby steelincotton on Mon May 19, 2008 10:05 am

I don't understand people these days. As Bar just said, when Clinton left office, the debt was paid off and we even had a surplus. Republicans do not know how to govern, it's as simple as that. Everytime they get in power, they screw up, so it's our time again.

I'll repeat this for those who may not know, but the democrats will NOT raise your taxes UNLESS YOU MAKE OVER $250,000 per year. That means 90% of Americans will pay LESS tax when all things are considered. The democrats today have become the conservative economic party, and this will become even more clear to some here when Obama takes office in November.

In the meantime, here's the secret weapon for the GOP: MCBUSH

http://www.toryhobson.com/new/image/0/0 ... mccain.jpg
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby Royal Dragon on Mon May 19, 2008 12:50 pm

The guys making 250,000.00 a year should not have thier taxes raised either.

Also, how are you going to fund a national healthcare system without bringing in more revenue? what the Dems want to do is just not feasible without destroying the American way of life.

I am not saying the republicans are all that great of a plan either, but it's not worse than what we have now.

If I had my way, we should get rid of all of them, and start fresh with all new people, who must first know the US constitution inside and out, and know HOW and WHY this came to be the greatest nation in the history of man kind.

Instead I am stuck trying to decide between Dweedle de, and Tweedle DumB. Which one will fuck things up the least? No matter what, with the sorry lot we have to choose from, who ever gets in is going to Fuck things up more.

All I know is the Government of this country is a threat to freedom for everyone. I am seriously considering either NOT voting this time around, OR voting for myself,which is pretty much the same thing.
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Re: It's Obvious: but curious

Postby steelincotton on Mon May 19, 2008 1:13 pm

Royal Dragon wrote:Also, how are you going to fund a national healthcare system without bringing in more revenue? what the Dems want to do is just not feasible without destroying the American way of life.


I wont argue with you, because we are all entitled to our opinions, and I do agree a lot of the democrats are bums too, but how on gods green earth is trying to have universal health care going to destroy the American way of life?

I don't think it's too American watching hard working people lose their homes to pay hospital bills, or like in my fathers case, who had major stomach surgery, and was promptly thrown out the very same day because he's on Medicare! Which then led to more complications, infection, and further surgery - The doctor is now being sued and he should be, he almost killed my dad! As long as health care is a for-profit system we will continue to plummet the middle and lower working classes into destruction. It's pure insanity to keep the system as is, and most people do realize this now, and if you've been following the news in California, they've been having thousands of folks protesting in the streets over this issue (the nursing association was one of them). Folks better stay healthy these days because whether you have health insurance or not, the "insurance" only covers you for up to so much and for only so long. Hospitals trying to make more and more profit, will have less nurses, less doctors, and will almost always choose the cheaper action when the time comes. This is no way to take care of people's health and well-being. Every single country in the entire world, has socialized medicine, but of course, since we are the greediest we haven't come around yet, but i'm hopeful we will soon. I'm also scared shitless that I don't come down with some major illness or disease, because I can't count on getting what I morally and humanely deserve to get. It's a crap shoot today!

I find it funny that we somehow have TEN BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH FOR IRAQ, but we can't have a universal health care system? Come on, let's be real here. Sooner or later, we're going to HAVE to socialize our health care, just like we currently do with our fireman, policemen, and education, because the costs and the services will dictate it. As people come to these realizations, they will demand it, as they are starting to now.
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