BERGDAHL the real story

[allen2saint]

Here's my thing about McCain: I acknowledge that he, unlike many in his party, put his money where his mouth is, served and endured a great deal. That aspect of his life and service is to be respected. On the other hand, he plays the same political games, spouting the same bullet points that everyone else does in the politics game in the US. He knows how mamy people accept his word as Gospel on issues like this and he plays it for all its worth to get the job done for his party. I am glad Kerry, also a decorated vet, shut his ass down by pointing out the grandstanding and the hyperbole.

They would make as much a circus out of it if POTUS did not get Bergdahl back. US politics has become a game of the Right Wing trading in hyperbole, day and night and the Left Wing largely playing defense, rather than taking a stand and letting the chips fall where they may. POTUS actually has done a fair amount of that these last two years though.

The ethics of getting our service member back are clear. You do what you have to and get your people back. If people were injured or killed getting him back, which I understand is now debatable,its regrettable, but that is what they signed up for. If we started letting people take missions based on their own personal tastes of what is worth it and not, or who is worthy to save and not, war would get a lot more complicated...or, maybe, a lot simpler, because there would be a lot less people fighting them.

[Steve James]

The fifth, however, has a darker past. Mohammed Fazl was chief of staff of the Taliban army and is accused of commanding forces that massacred hundreds of civilians in the final years of Taliban rule before the 2001 U.S.-led invasion. He was arrested in November 2001 after surrendering to U.S.-allied warlords in northern Afghanistan.

I haven't been able to find any report that he was tried and convicted in any type of court. He surrendered, and was held as an "enemy combatant." I suppose that means he would have been released at some point.

Anyway, I have no idea whether the numbers are accurate, but here's the brief from the wiki:

Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan (2001–present)

The War in Afghanistan (2001–present) has resulted in between 18,000 and 20,000 Afghan civilians being killed.[1] The war, launched by the United States as "Operation Enduring Freedom" in 2001, began with an initial air campaign that almost immediately prompted concerns over the number of Afghan civilians being killed[2] as well as international protests. With civilian deaths from airstrikes rising again in recent years,[3] the number of Afghan civilians being killed by foreign military operations has led to mounting tension between the foreign countries and the government of Afghanistan. In May 2007, President Hamid Karzai summoned foreign military commanders to warn them of the consequences of further Afghan civilian deaths.[4] The civilian losses are a continuation of the extremely high civilian losses experienced during the Soviet Afghan war in the 1980s, and the three periods of civil war following it: 1989–1992, 1992–1996, and 1996–2001.

Afa the Hazara genocide; it hasn't been just in Afghanistan and has been going on long before there were Taliban. That doesn't excuse anyone from participating. But, it sure wasn't the reason this guy was in Gitmo.

I dunno. If you were the prisoner, would you want the trade?

[roger hao]

OK - I got it

First -it was OK for the president to act without congress because they would have said no.

Second - The Taliban released were mostly good guys who ended up in leadership positions by happenstance
And......BTW the genocide thing was going on anyway

Third - Bergdahl was disillusioned and wandered off his post - he did not desert

[Steve James]

No, no, no. You've got it backwards.

1. The Prez should have let B rot, and should be impeached for ignoring Congress.

2. Those five mofos should have been executed for their crimes by the Afghanis.

3. There was no reason to waste the lives of six Americans going to retrieve a deserter. They should have sent a predator drone and just taken him out.

[Doc Stier]

Thank you, Roger and Steve. I am happy to see that not everyone here is drinking the Whitehouse kool-aid!

[Steve James]

Well, Doc, I still have one son in active service at the moment. So, I'd be for the trade, and I really couldn't care what anyone thought about it. Other than that, I think that Bergdahl should be tried under the uniform code, no more, no less. Politics has nothing to do with it.

[allen2saint]

Thank you, Roger and Steve. I am happy to see that not everyone here is drinking the Whitehouse kool-aid!

Straight from the FOX News media strategy. Anyone not out to impeach the president once a month is "drinking the kook-aid." Please.

[Doc Stier]

That's just as absurd as saying that anyone who thinks the President should be held accountable for any executive overreach is a bigot and a racist. Please!

[allen2saint]

Race? Where did that come in? I'm talking about your political bias, which is clear...unless of course, your accusation that anyone supporting the prez is racially motivated. That has long been FOX's strategy as well.

http://mediamatters.org/video/2008/06/0 ... dap/143674

[Doc Stier]

No need to get your panties in a wad. I have no particular political agenda or bias, being neither Democrat nor Republican, but simply grow weary of extremism on both sides, whether those who believe the President can do nothing right or those who believe he can do nothing wrong. Period.

[roger hao]

I forgot one more lesson learned -

Bergdahl was traded because the US does not leave a POW behind - ever!

Is this true? Were all the Viet Nam POW's returned? Now I can tell all those MIA
kooks to stop their belly aching.

[Steve James]

Well, it kind of dishonors the men or women who die or have died living by that code to question it. But, fwiw, Vietnam is not holding any war era pows. I dunno, maybe Andy has different news for PRNK. Otherwise, iinm, all the rest are mias, but not pows. There are many mias, for many other reasons.

[roger hao]

Once again with the strange logic Steve

So are you saying that no one was left behind in Laos? As a POW.
Or are you saying that it doesn't matter cause they are dead?

[Steve James]

So are you saying that no one was left behind in Laos? As a POW.
Or are you saying that it doesn't matter cause they are dead?

I'm saying that six men died trying to get Bergdahl back Because they lived by the code of not leaving a man behind. They weren't searching for a deserter, even if he was. So, I think to make light of the code is to dishonor the people who live by it.

I have no clue about Laos.

[allen2saint]

No need to get your panties in a wad. I have no particular political agenda or bias, being neither Democrat nor Republican, but simply grow weary of extremism on both sides, whether those who believe the President can do nothing right or those who believe he can do nothing wrong. Period.

Well, you know, you throw the kool-aid comment out there specifically targeting one side of the argument, which you did, it's gonna get a response from someone. Price of doing business.