Shooting of the Week

[Steve James]

Like I said, these Americans, such as the last one, share a common ideology. It's not a mental illness. Schizophrenics and bipolar people don't seem to do what these red blooded American chaps do. Their ideology is quite consistent. Just post their opinions. No one argues that Black criminals or Muslim terrorists are mentally ill. Why not? Don't many of have depression a.d feel isolated too?

[grzegorz]

http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com ... us-abroad/

just some sites showing a different narrative

I don't really see it as a different narrative. I see it as the UK having lower homicide rates.

What is violent crime defined as anyhow? I mean throwing a rock through a window in a dispute can defined as violent crime.

I find this graph much more interesting.



Either way, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this. I too have had firearms training and although I can understand both sides I still believe that people with mental health issues shouldn't have access to firearms.

[windwalker]

Either way, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this. I too have had firearms training and although I can understand both sides I still believe that people with mental health issues shouldn't have access to firearms.

totally agree but how to implement it

“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings.

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-sw ... hat-works/

In looking at other countries where they have large amount of privet guns. We really do have a unique idea about guns,
ie protection from the gov,,where as in the other countries its in support of the gov to help protect it from outsiders.

[grzegorz]

I don't believe that is really what the second amendment was designed for. I believe that is a spin of what the second amendment was which is a well regulated militia which is defined in the militia act of 1792 and called upon by George Washington in the whiskey rebellion because people were refusing to pay taxes.

Of course this is just my personal opinion, I could be wrong but it's also not something I see any value in debating because I don't think it solves the problem we are discussing in any way concerning people with mental health issues buying firearms.

[Steve James]

Note the "Congressional action:" at the bottom. It's unimportant that the Republicans control Congress. I mean, the problem is democratic and catholic and American. There are those who think that it'd be better if everyone had a firearm; they just don't think that the gov't should know. If everyone had one, though, what logical difference would it make? Since, it could be assumed that everyone had one. That would include the mentally ill, whose primary illness is their paranoia of the government, phobias of those who aren't like them, and depression over their perception that they're being unfairly held back.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=6&v=NGY6DqB1HX8[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=6&v=NGY6DqB1HX8

[windwalker]

They define "mass shooting" as any single incident in which at least four people are shot, including the gunman. The tracker comes in for some criticism because its definition is broader than the FBI's definition, which requires three or more people to be killed by gunfire.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk ... y-in-2015/

Wondered where the numbers where coming from. I thought the numbers used would be much higher. In some communities seems like this would an everyday occurrence.

There's no easy fix to gun violence in this country. As gun rights proponents are quick to point out, municipalities with strict gun laws, like Chicago and D.C., see more than their fair share of gun crime. But it's nevertheless a fact that the level of gun violence we see in the U.S. is like nothing seen in other wealthy Western nations.

I dont really agree with this, it talks about gun violence but dose not mention violence as a whole.

But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.
In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.
league of shame

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.
Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3nhkKtCNv
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... a-U-S.html

[Steve James]

[grzegorz]

Funny someone should post that image above because had the shooter been a Muslim or an immigrant the response on the right wouldn't just be "stuff happens."

[Steve James]

It's kind of paradoxical 'cause we can actually compare the number of Muslim terrorist in this country who've acted out to the number of terrorists who've flown that flag.


I also find interesting the complaints that media hasn't emphasized that the last killer asked some of his victims whether they believed in God or were Christians. As far as we know, the shooters were raised as Christians in Christian communities. One even acted out after praying in church.

[windwalker]

[Steve James]

Aw, I wasn't complaining about the flag. Check any of my posts. I was just pointing out the fact that people who care about the flag are often the ones going into the schools and churches and shooting up people. You see, if it were a Muslim carrying the IS flag doing it, no one would deny the connection. It's the type of "profiling" that happens all the time, ain't it? I mean, if you find a single guy who doesn't trust the gov't, but loves the Constitution, and is depressed because he feels that he's being oppressed, it's not silly to think that he might be likely to go off.

The problem is that individuals with those povs are common, way more common than Muslims in this country. However, those individuals will never be considered "mentally ill." And there's no clinical condition that describes them because "mentally ill" people don't do such things. In short, I totally agree that guns are not the problem. It's the people. And if they want to fly the Nazi flag because they agree with what both represent and shout "America" and "USA," that's totally fine with me. I'm just pointing out the connections.

[Steve James]

C'mon, admit it, "Alcohol", "Tobacco", and "Firearms" are American addictions and that's why some problems will never go away until this stops being a "United States" of denial.

Reminds me of Star Trek and the reason why Vulcans were so logical. Their society made a choice. It seems our allegedly "Christian" society has people and politicians who are arguing that we should choose the gun. Funny, or paradoxical-hypocritical, because ""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." I'm sure those words would apply to guns and all weapons that destroy human life. If you prefer, karma does exist. So, people and societies have make a choice. Oh, no need to bring up OT prophets or the prophecy that he'll come back to destroy. That's the "die by" part.

[windwalker]

The problem is that individuals with those povs are common, way more common than Muslims in this country. However, those individuals will never be considered "mentally ill." And there's no clinical condition that describes them because "mentally ill" people don't do such things.

As long as they dont act on them they can have any point of view they like. Any mentally ill person can use what ever
to justify what they do.

Until they do it, in most cases its not a problem depending on what is said.

Unlike people associating themselves with groups outside the US, it would seem the powers that be are tracking them closely. To the point where if they even plan something
and its credible enough they'er stopped...

On the other hand It can be pointed out that those who say they follow a certain faith in this case Islam, seem to be acting in a way all over the world that
pushes out the host cultures they move into once a certain population threshold is achieved they dont assimilate, they assimilate the host. "seem to be" the operative word.

Yes this country is in denial on many aspects, totally agree.

Right now, they’re fighting each other in Iraq, admittedly,” Carson said, according to the Hill. “But in the long run, I think they would gladly unite against us in their attempt to destroy the United States, our way of life, and Israel. And we have to be extraordinarily careful about any alliances with them.”

http://www.ibtimes.com/ben-carson-musli ... on-1852516

he makes some interesting arguments only pertinent here in regards to "terrorist" and the perceived differences in treatment vs home grown hate groups/ or lone wolfs if known. They get tracked and dealt with too, only its not always so public.

[Steve James]

As long as they dont act on them they can have any point of view they like.

Well, like I said, they won't be considered as much a problem as Islamic terrorists even if they are the ones doing the most killing in this country. Why is that? And sure, that's why people will say "stuff happens" and "it's a mental illness problem." Naw, it's much deeper than that, and --from a Christian pov: i.e., referring to anything said by Jesus Christ-- pointing to the sins of Muslims is fruitless.

Unlike people associating themselves with groups outside the US, it would seem the powers that be are tracking them closely. To the point where if they even plan something and its credible enough they'er stopped...

Um, you are most certainly talking about Muslim terrorist plots. They're the ones that have been stopped, if any. And, guess who's been blowing up and shooting up people and saying the gov't is the problem.

Carson also believes the Earth can't be millions of years old. He's sincere. However, he would most certainly impose his religious views every chance he could. There's no need to trust a Muslim or a Christian. They're all sinners. No human life is worth more than any other. No matter what they do. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be fought at every turn. Then again, Muslim-phobia is just the newest incarnation of American other-phobia. Look what was said about the Indians, and the Irish, and the Italians, and Mexicans. Something's untrustworthy and evil about almost everybody else. That's the denial: Common humanity. And the inability to recognize that might just be a mental deficiency.

[windwalker]