Shooting of the Week

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:28 pm

Oh, we're mixing threads now, are we?

Well how about this one where "anyone else" left is deported without trial.

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened to Mexicans in U.S. history.

Anyway, I think you guys are offended because you think I called PD a bigot when actually what I said is his thoughts are those of a bigot and I said by that claim.

So much for the Constitution defending all Americans.

No worries the Norwegian shooter thought multi-culturalism was everything evil to and sees himself as a hero for what he did like a Christian knight beheading pagans.

Perhaps PD can speak for himself.

Peacedog wrote:Steve,

Much easier than most people want to admit.

First, you make it impossible to work without the right papers. E-Verify in the US is a good example of this to apply for a job. Then you raise fines on employers to an unacceptable level $25,000 to $50,000 per violation with aggressive enforcement.

Next, you eliminate the ability to use wire transfers to send money home and apply fines to the agencies that provide the service. No work visa, US passport or birth certificate = no wire transfer. People caught doing this illegally face civil forfeiture. With penalties applied to the companies even if provided with a false ID.

Third, you use civil forfeiture to confiscate any property (i.e. cars, houses, or bank accounts) long term illegals acquire.

At this point you have eliminated the financial incentives to enter a country illegally.

Next, you penalize the countries involved and this is where the spigot of refugees gets turned off in earnest. Every illegal you find in your country turns into a $50,000 fine for the offending country in question to subsidize the cost of their repatriation. Many legal scholars will say this is unenforceable. Untrue. You penalize goods coming in from these countries, confiscate politicians and diplomats bank accounts, etc. This will get those countries current making money off of repatriated funds from illegals to fix the problem very quickly.

The bottom line is that if you make this painful for the rich and powerful in the offending countries the problems get handled quickly.

Next, you ramp up enforcement. Make it clear that if you come here illegally that your life will suck. This removes the last of the "better life" enticement for coming over illegally. Aggressively patrol borders using UAVs and seaborne interdiction. If caught we send you home immediately without a hearing and sink the boat you were on.

Human traffickers are labeled as being terrorists versus merely criminals part of a criminal organization. Information from illegals leading to their capture results in a $25,000 reward that they can take home with them when we deport them back to their country of origin. You execute the human trafficker for being a member of an FTO (Foreign Terrorist Organization).

Largely eliminate the requirement for a legal hearing before deportation. Executive orders and some creative lawyering will take care of that.

For those that get a hearing, or who have money to fight this, they get remanded to an off cite holding facility outside the country in question. Think a Pacific island with no air conditioning, no schools, no internet, and no TV. You get three hot meals a day and medical care. If you want to drop your legal case, we provide you an airline ticket at no charge to either your home of record or a bordering state.

All of these efforts will largely result in the problem self deporting and self eliminating over a 4-5 year period. Anyone else who is left you just round up.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby klonk on Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:41 pm

Oh, and you said the NRA is all biggoty and all. Well, I oughta admit there is this black woman in the NRA I don't much like. But the reason is she often shoots better than me and shows me up--that's all. ::) You see, I don't much like that from anyone. -toast-
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:05 pm

The Republican party has bigots and minorities too. Having a taken minority around doesn't mean no bigots are present.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Peacedog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:33 pm

To further elaborate my views on the immigration debate, let me make the following clear.

The only immigration that should be taking place is that which economically benefits the country in question.

In terms of developed countries legal immigration should fall into one of three categories:

1. The rich.
-If you can invest $5M USD into the US economy, and it has to stay here, you get a visa. This benefits the country you are immigrating to. One of my main anti-illegal immigration issues is the transfer of wealth outside the US. It not only sends hard earned capital away from the point of origin, but it allows countries that are failing to continue to engage in the policies that are causing their problems.

2. The educated in fields the country in question needs more of and only in numbers that don't disrupt employment for citizens.
-If we are short primary care doctors, getting them from other countries is a way to go, etc.

3. The skilled in fields the country needs more of and only in numbers that don't disrupt employment for citizens.
-If you need skilled machine operators and you don't have enough currently get them from somewhere else. On that note, I am opposed to the current H-1B visa program that allows for companies to wholesale eliminate citizens in favor of lower cost legal immigrants.

In short, if you can't go to work immediately by providing resources to your new society or doing skilled jobs we don't have enough people to do currently, then you cannot enter the country.

My main issue with the current unchecked illegal immigration is that it is economically damaging over the long run. Traditionally, developed countries needed large amounts of unskilled labor for industry, agriculture and services. This is no longer the case. Unskilled labor now just slows the mechanization of those fields.

Additionally, it undermines the rule of law and draws away large amounts of resources from established populations in an effort to educate and bring the newcomers up to the standards of the locals. The newcomers only assimilate is the arrive in small numbers. If the numbers are too large, they just end up in ghettos and cause resentment.
Last edited by Peacedog on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:56 pm

???
文武両道。

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:33 pm

I dropped PD's comments in the immigration thread, where they belong.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:13 pm

Another officer down, if only they had guns...
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:36 pm

grzegorz wrote:Another officer down, if only they had guns...


you might want to fill in the rest of the story

in northern Illinois say a manhunt is underway after an officer was shot and killed. ... in Chicago suburb after police officer is shot Daily MailOnline (Today) ... fatally shot during traffic stop when pepper spray was deployed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-are ... g-manhunt/

he did have a gun, in light of recent events he probably ignored his own judgment trying
the PC thing...looks like it didnt work out to well for him.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:57 pm

You never do get my jokes, do you?
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:21 pm

Well, what's disturbing is that there have been so many shootings, even of law enforcement officers. Haven't there been three or four in the last two weeks? Ya know, ime, leos are usually in favor of stricter gun control.

Anyway, I've been trying to figure a scenario where it would help for someone to be armed in a mass shooting scenario. I have to agree that it would be great if "someone" had a weapon at that moment. I run into a problem, though, when the number of armed people increases. Apart from the basic issue of avoiding crossfire --say in the case of a shooter who is in the middle of the audience. If everyone fires, they all better be good shots. Otoh, if they're trained to avoid crossfiring, they might not shoot at all. But, say they can shoot squarely. How will people tell who is shooting, or if there are more than one shooter? If the shooter fires back, how can anyone know who started it? I know those are a lot of "what ifs." However, the idea that everyone being armed would deter a mentally ill person or a dedicated terrorist relies on perfect circumstances and performance --and that is unlikely.

I'm not arguing that "no one" should be armed in a church, school, theater or any public gathering. But, since it's been acknowledged that such mass shootings are rare, there's no reason for more people to be armed in order to prevent them --which they do not do. The guys on the French train didn't have firearms. Maybe companies will start running train marshals, or even put marshals in every car.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:35 pm

windwalker wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Another officer down, if only they had guns...


you might want to fill in the rest of the story

in northern Illinois say a manhunt is underway after an officer was shot and killed. ... in Chicago suburb after police officer is shot Daily MailOnline (Today) ... fatally shot during traffic stop when pepper spray was deployed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-are ... g-manhunt/

he did have a gun, in light of recent events he probably ignored his own judgment trying
the PC thing...looks like it didnt work out to well for him.


FWIW at this time last year there were more officers killed in the line of duty than this year.

In the case of the deputy in Texas, the man who shot him had a history of mental illness and once beat a man nearly to death in an argument over the TV remote. Another case of a mentally ill person getting their hands on a gun and everything ending in tragedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/us/texas- ... s-station/
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:21 pm

I'm not arguing that "no one" should be armed in a church, school, theater or any public gathering. But, since it's been acknowledged that such mass shootings are rare, there's no reason for more people to be armed in order to prevent them --which they do not do. The guys on the French train didn't have firearms. Maybe companies will start running train marshals, or even put marshals in every car.


Good point, on the one hand gun groups are saying that these occurrences are so rare that it's pointless to have new regulations yet on the other hand they want to change gun regulations so they can have their gun on them at all times because this isn't so rare. So which is it?
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:29 am

windwalker wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Another officer down, if only they had guns...


you might want to fill in the rest of the story

in northern Illinois say a manhunt is underway after an officer was shot and killed. ... in Chicago suburb after police officer is shot Daily MailOnline (Today) ... fatally shot during traffic stop when pepper spray was deployed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-are ... g-manhunt/

he did have a gun, in light of recent events he probably ignored his own judgment trying
the PC thing...looks like it didnt work out to well for him.


Your version of events was slightly oversimplified.

Covelli said Gliniewicz radioed in Tuesday morning to tell dispatchers he was chasing three men on foot. Communication with him was lost soon after. Covelli said backup officers found him injured with a gunshot wound and that he died soon after.

http://news.yahoo.com/officials-search- ... 56257.html
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:00 am

If every American had a gun this would never happen. Oh wait!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-incid ... d=33662903
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Another school shooting.
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