Shooting of the Week

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:07 am

Oh, I know. And I also know that the gun violence there is specifically related to gang drug crime, much like Chicago was in the 1920s or Compton was in the 90s. Violence in Chicago is also limited to small areas.

Chicago is brought up because it's just the contemporary (boogeyman) example of the "inner city" and the people who are presumed to live there. So, if the issue is gun violence, "look at Chicago," even if it's 25th on the list of violent cities-- and nowhere near the murder capital. If the issue is drug addiction, Chicago is not used as the poster child for the opioid epidemic and the need to treat it as a health issue. If the issue is gun control, Chicago is used as the example of how gun laws don't work. Even though people aren't walking into synagogues, churches, and schools to shoot people for political reasons. There aren't even reports of mentally ill people going on rampages, either. Rather, we have reports of gang killings and the collateral damages suffered by innocent victims.

I am glad that I don't live in Chicago, but not because I believe the hype about how bad it is there. I live in the highest crime area of the highest crime borough in the city. Something violent happens all day every day, but I rarely see anything unless I turn on the news or my Citizen app. I'm happy to be here. And, I would feel less safe lots of other places, including Florida.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:23 pm

The guns used in Chicago murders are usually bought and sold in Indiana where the laws are not strict.

Gun violence is highest in red states as is the rate of poverty.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5622
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: A Glorious Day in Trumpistan!

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:41 am

Origami-itto is right that I pulled Chicago out oaf the hat. But, it's because Chicago is/was the expected retort to acts of mass violence committed elsewhere. A guy murders two people in a supermarket; "Look at Chicago." A guy murders nine people in church; "Look at Chicago." A guy murders eleven in a synagogue; "What about Chicago?" A guy kills 50 at a concert; "In Chicago, more can be killed in a weekend."

They're all true, and we could spend the days between mass-shootings elsewhere discussing the specific problems in Chicago. But, Chicago doesn't come up on its own. Neither does violent crime in Alaska. Well, except if one watches discovery channel.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:17 am

Yes Chicago is a darling of the right. It's a perfect storm of violence and brown people that makes for what they consider an easy target
"This principle is very obvious and requires no further elaboration."
-Yang Cheng Fu
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:05 am

13 Dead in the third safest city in the country.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/authorities- ... 08764.html
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 5622
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: A Glorious Day in Trumpistan!

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:18 am

oragami_itto wrote:Yes Chicago is a darling of the right. It's a perfect storm of violence and brown people that makes for what they consider an easy target


Is it about the color of the skin thats
shot or the numbers of people who are shot in one day or week.

The recent shooting, in some neighborhoods is an every day weekend.

News flash if you not black or "brown people" as you say you are the "they".

They're not going to ask you your political affiliation to find out.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:01 am, edited 6 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7167
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 am

Is it about the color of the skin thats
shot or the numbers of people who are shot in one day or week.


It's that they bring up shootings in Chicago whenever a White person commits a mass murder. Chicago has nothing to do with the synagogue, church, club, or school shootings.

News flash if you not black or "brown people" as you say you are the "they".


Oops, wrong. "They" are the people who do the above; i.e., use Chicago as a deflection. They use it because they want to identify crime with skin color --or religion, creed, political affiliation, belief system, etc. Or, those who think there's a "white" side and a "black/brown" side and you're on one or the other. Lots of "thems" out there who believe that.

Most of Antifa is made up of White people. Are all White people Antifa or Nazis? Should we point to Antifa as an example of white crime or violence? That'd be stupid, imho.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:58 pm

It's that they bring up shootings in Chicago whenever a White person commits a mass murder. Chicago has nothing to do with the synagogue, church, club, or school shootings.


Mass murderers such as the most recent, make up about 2% of the shootings in the US. They tend to get the most press for many different reasons.

Chicago is usually listed among the top 20 cities in the US for having the most gun violence. Depending on data or stats, it is often listed as number one. The numbers shot in a given week or day in some cases equals or exceeds the numbers typically found in mass shootings.

Laws passed in many of those cities cited for gun control are often the most stringent in the country.

Chicago is brought up as a visible example, that prompts the question of what are we doing as a country to address an issue that for some Americans is an everyday event, that often doesn't make the news because it is.

Had an uncle shot in San Francisco being robbed for his camera. Had he had gun he may not have been the one shot. Apparently he didn't give up the camera easily.

The ones who shot him we're caught in the process of robbing someone else later on. The gun as in most cases was not lawfully possessed by the ones who shot and killed him.

Our family was told not to say any negative things about them to the press, it might influence the trial. They had hard lives growing up.

Go figure.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7167
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:11 pm

Chicago is usually listed among the top 20 cities in the US for having the most gun violence.


The point is that you specifically bring Chicago up as a deflection. If you used the other 19 cities where violent crime is worse, it'd be different. Yep, "Chicago is often brought up." And, the reason is not because it's the worst city.

Mass murderers such as the most recent, make up about 2% of the shootings in the US. They tend to get the most press for many different reasons.


So, do you think they shouldn't get as much press, and that Chicago should get more? Does that really make sense? And, the question is why these particular people walk into gatherings of people to shoot them randomly. Sure, 50 people killed in Chicago in three days by 50 different people. Otoh, 10 people killed by one person in 2 minutes. Yep, the latter will make the news. If that person were a Muslim or a Mexican, it'd be in even more newspapers --and NOBODY would be bringing up Chicago.

Had an uncle shot in San Francisco being robbed for his camera. Had he had gun he may not have been the one shot. Apparently he didn't give up the camera easily.


Sorry for your loss. I, too, had an uncle murdered. The perpetrators were never caught.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:48 pm

If that person were a Muslim or a Mexican, it'd be in even more newspapers --and NOBODY would be bringing up Chicago.


And you know this how.
Your projection is showing.

Had a grandmother killed by an illegal alien walking across the street being hit by the him driving a car.

He fled back to Mexico.

People in the most affected communities
tend to focus on their own community.

Some say guns are the problem the US should ban guns or make them hard to get. On the other hand some allow or make Sanctuary cities or states for illegal aliens entering the country.

Instead of enforcing the law and making it harder for them to get into the country. Both are related to the Constitution and how it's enforced.


sorry to hear about your relative.
Karma has a way of catching up with people.

Whether caught or not.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7167
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:34 pm

Chicago is usually listed among the top 20 cities in the US for having the most gun violence. Depending on data or stats, it is often listed as number one.


Top 20, huh? Not bad for the third largest city in the US. Chicago is massive and the violence is contained to certain areas. The violence here in Chicago is also a completely different (and established) phenomenon.

As others have stated, Chicago is brought up because some see it as a great way to link the supposed Brown and Black threat to argue for gun rights. It's pretty confused, but racism has long worked for gun manufacturers:

https://newrepublic.com/article/146190/ ... gun-rights
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:01 pm

If that person were a Muslim or a Mexican, it'd be in even more newspapers --and NOBODY would be bringing up Chicago.

And you know this how.


You're kidding. 1) I've been reading you on RSF for 10 years. 2) There was a Muslim terrorist attack last year here around Halloween. NOBODY brought up Chicago. I can't recall any recent Muslim terrorist attacks in the US. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of "American" terrorist attacks. After each one, Chicago has come up. I wasn't making a prediction about something that would happen "if." It's happened already.

Immigration is another issue that has nothing to do with why a guy walks into a synagogue, church, school, or club and then shoots people. Sure, some illegal aliens have committed crimes. The same can be said of the legal immigrants who came in the 20th century. Every single one of them had criminals, Besides, far more crimes are committed by legal US residents than illegal immigrants.

My point is simple. It's stupid to blame a group of people for the crimes of an individual or a sub-group. The explanation for the reason a person commits crime is never his ethnic or religious group. Dylan Roof didn't murder 9 Christian Americans because he was White. And, even if it was --because the "races" are different, there'd be no treatment. It's the same for everyone. The people who want to blame a group would never blame their own. And, having criminals is not a sensible way to categorize groups of humans.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:15 pm

I agree that it is a diversion at best (and scapegoating at worst) to bring up immigrants or Chicago when there are mass shootings by white people, I am not so sure that it's "stupid to blame a group of people." IMO, it depends on the group (unless this is an issue of semantics and sub-group takes on a vital meaning?).

The KKK is a group and the violence they carried out was certainly connected to their group identity. I think there are other examples, but they rarely work the way conservatives try and identify them.

But, yes, bringing up Chicago on a thread about mass shootings as a phenomenon in the US is some bullshit.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:43 pm

The KKK is a group and the violence they carried out was certainly connected to their group identity. I think there are other examples, but they rarely work the way conservatives try and identify them.


Yes, I understand; and you're right that I used "sub group" with a particular meaning. I'd never blame "White" people for the actions of the KKK, even though the KKK claims to be acting on behalf of "White" people. That's stupid. In fact, most of my civil rights heroes are the "White" people who fought against the KKK. It'd be stupid for me to lump them with the KKK, or the nazis, etc. I don't consider all Germans guilty for Hitler's crimes, or all Japanese because of Tojo.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:07 pm

Steve James wrote:If that person were a Muslim or a Mexican, it'd be in even more newspapers --and NOBODY would be bringing up Chicago.

And you know this how.


You're kidding. 1) I've been reading you on RSF for 10 years. 2) There was a Muslim terrorist attack last year here around Halloween. NOBODY brought up Chicago. maybe because it was a "terrorist attack based on an ideology that promotes and executes terrorist attacks all over the world. " I can't recall any recent Muslim terrorist attacks in the US. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of "American" terrorist attacks. After each one, Chicago has come up. followed by more talk of gun laws and how to stop them I wasn't making a prediction about something that would happen "if." It's happened already.

Immigration is another issue that has nothing to do with why a guy walks into a synagogue, church, school, or club and then shoots people. Sure, some illegal aliens have committed crimes. The same can be said of the legal immigrants who came in the 20th century. Every single one of them had criminals, Besides, far more crimes are committed by legal US residents than illegal immigrants. mmm, so that justifies allowing the illegal aliens to continue to break the law.... "immigrant" is a status they have not received yet...Gun rights and immigration are both issues that tend to come to the forefront when ever events like mass shootings happen or it happens that a family member is shot or killed by one of them... which in some areas is a normal only doesn't get the press. Both are related to the larger issue of rights, outlined in the constitution.

My point is simple. It's stupid to blame a group of people for the crimes of an individual or a sub-group. The explanation for the reason a person commits crime is never his ethnic or religious group.

Except that they tend to say its because of their ethnic or religious group among other things......

Dylan Roof didn't murder 9 Christian Americans because he was White. And, even if it was --because the "races" are different, there'd be no treatment. It's the same for everyone. The people who want to blame a group would never blame their own. BS, but thats ok,, if you feel it helps your point of not blaming other groups because its stupid by assuming " people who want to blame a group would never blame their own". And, having criminals is not a sensible way to categorize groups of humans.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7167
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest