middleway wrote:IWell you know... It's worth it for fuck the immigrants.
Did you miss the part where I said I was pro immigration?
hat's interesting is that neither the winners nor the losers of the referendum are happy, and they take it out on each other. It's expected that the losers would be unhappy, and the winners shouldn't be mad at them. If the situation were reversed, they'd complain too. Complaints about being in the EU are what led to the referendum. Yeah, don't waste energy hating each other.
Here is one of Graham's Brexit experts with the most persuasive remain argument yet.
https://vimeo.com/314265471
Steve James wrote:What's interesting is that neither the winners nor the losers of the referendum are happy, and they take it out on each other. It's expected that the losers would be unhappy, and the winners shouldn't be mad at them. If the situation were reversed, they'd complain too. Complaints about being in the EU are what led to the referendum. Yeah, don't waste energy hating each other.
cloudz wrote:It's not anyones fault they have an opinion.
We had a vote, your opinion lost the vote. Pretty simple really. Democracy, get it ?
How would a stoic deal with Brexit? I find the stupidity, callousness and mentality of the 'other side' unforgivable. And people on the other side would think of me in the same way. The problem is the same. How do you deal with these people?
If you’re an EU citizen, you and your family will be able to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme to continue living in the UK after 30 June 2021. If your application is successful, you’ll get either settled or pre-settled status.
You may be able to stay in the UK without applying - for example, if you’re an Irish citizen or have indefinite leave to remain (ILR).
You’ll not usually be eligible to apply if you’re married to a British citizen and you’re from outside the EU
The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own… – Epictetus
From what I know (which isn't as much as you guys) those Brits living outside of the UK but in EU (who will be the most affected) did not get a vote.
How is that democracy?
If you are a UK citizen living abroad, you can apply to be an overseas voter. You must have been registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years and be eligible to vote
On the one hand I don't get emotional about politics. I know what I know and understand what I understand. When someone disagrees with me I listen and learn and find that often times it is impossible to use an intelligent conversation to change someone's opinion because most political opinions are based on emotions and not an intellectual argument so it's pretty much pointless.
Yet on the other hand, because of stoicism I no longer feel the need to spend my time with people who do not share my values (unless I at work because work is work) but now I have no problem being blunt because I don't care what people think about me and I don't feel the need to be surrounded by people who don't share my values (unless they are family) otherwise I would rather use my time for more productive things.
middleway wrote:How would a stoic deal with Brexit? I find the stupidity, callousness and mentality of the 'other side' unforgivable. And people on the other side would think of me in the same way. The problem is the same. How do you deal with these people?
Most people dont have such hate in them for other people who made a vote. If only you would look beyond your echo chamber maybe the hate would shrink a little.
For the board in general,
Just so you are aware, these people Graham feels 'most sorry for' are already secured in the UK if they want to stay, just as UK citizens are secured in the EU. This is in place and being used NOW but EU citizens.
Here's the facts (which can also be found in the threads graham has posted but doesnt seem to have read)
The solution is already in place and available to EU citizens.
Both the EU and the UK have agreed to this, even in a no deal situation.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-familiesIf you’re an EU citizen, you and your family will be able to apply to the EU Settlement Scheme to continue living in the UK after 30 June 2021. If your application is successful, you’ll get either settled or pre-settled status.
You may be able to stay in the UK without applying - for example, if you’re an Irish citizen or have indefinite leave to remain (ILR).
UK Gov site.
Both the EU and UK governments have confirmed that application is simply a formality to understand who is where and that it would be a very strange circumstance for individuals from the EU to be denied.
Of course we couldn't say the same about people from Non-EU nations... people who really need to opportunities afforded to them by the UK.You’ll not usually be eligible to apply if you’re married to a British citizen and you’re from outside the EU
Uk Gov Site
Spreading fear and misinformation about uncertainty that is simply not there. These actions, the hate for the other, the constant demonizing are the very actions that put fear into the good hardworking people from foreign nations that we need here.
Its a perverse situation.
Individuals thinking they are moral by spreading things they disagree with but have not researched, that then confuse and scare the people they claim to care about, which they then blame on the people they hate.The chief task in life is simply this: to identify and separate matters so that I can say clearly to myself which are externals not under my control, and which have to do with the choices I actually control. Where then do I look for good and evil? Not to uncontrollable externals, but within myself to the choices that are my own… – Epictetus
Oh for god's sake. A cursory - even a cursory examination of the reality of the situation would reveal you are talking utter shite. You make it sound so simple. It's not.
While stopping short of guaranteeing their future, Mr Raab said last week that it was "inconceivable" that non-UK citizens would be asked to leave whatever the outcome of current negotiations with the EU.
Immigration minister Caroline Nokes said the pilot was another step in making it easy for EU nationals to obtain settled status - enabling them to live and work in the UK on the same terms as now.
"From today, we are inviting a small group of EU citizens to make an application to secure their status," she said. "We will use their feedback to make any necessary adjustments ahead of the scheme being fully opened."
How much it costs
On 21 January the Prime Minister announced that there will be no fee when the scheme opens fully on 30 March 2019. Anyone who has applied already, or who applies and pays a fee during the test phases, will have their fee refunded. Details of the refunds process will be published shortly.
If you want to apply now, the fee (which will be refunded) is:
£65 if you’re 16 or over
£32.50 if you’re under 16
Yeah, but you don't care, do you?
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