BREXIT

[windwalker]

Before we get carried away remember the referendum was "advisory" not binding. Cameron didn't action it and says he won't. It might never get actioned. Read this very insightful article:

http://jackofkent.com/2016/06/why-the-a ... important/

Also the Scottish Snp leader has threatened to veto it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36633244

This is one of the gripes that the people of Britain had with the EU.
I can think of France or Ireland or even Holland who voted one way, but the EU just ignored the vote (sending them back to `vote again and vote properly`).
The UK is in many ways the crucible of modern democracy (at least very much looked at in that way by the outsiders), it would be a huge blow to 'civilization'. I really can't see the Brits doing it to themselves though, they would not stand for shenanigans.

If anyone takes the time to watch the clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZ9EIOQzXU most of this was mentioned...


Another point mentioned was that the cost for the other members to support it would go up as a member dropped out.
It will be interesting to see how they address it.

To its credit the EU from the news here is pushing for the exit to happen quickly.

[RobP3]

I didnt see anything about "civil war" in what he said. I dont quite get the character assassination. I thought he had some valid points
ones that you did not address.

Not assassination, just my observation on that guy. He seems happy enough to play on that level (eg "feminists are fat and ugly")

"Some Poles living in Huntingdon apparently received laminated cards reading 'Leave the EU - no more Polish Vermin.'"

which has nothing to do with the official gov view point from what I've read.

But everything to do with the "populist" agenda pushed by people such as those in your clip - "it's all the fault of the immigrants" etc etc

you mentioned "far right" can you shows examples of what you would consider "far left" on this topic.

No, but if you search around Im sure you could find some

As much as possible in trying to understand whats going I tend to look at data sets, facts, questions and answers
that support a given view point over style of devilry.

It seems like there as here the leadership is not in touch with whats happening and they have their own agendas
supported by the media which makes understanding should one want to a little hard... at the same time its easier
to check what is said although one has to navigate their way through left and right.

while we may not agree on some points I do appreciate the time you and others have taken being on the ground giving a real life view point.
best of luck in this time of change.

[/quote]

But all the "data" you are putting forward is from one narrow political perspective - a perspective that as I have already mentioned doesn't fit with my own experience at ground level.

When has the leadership ever been in touch with what is happening? The "elite" always has its own agenda, which I imagine most of the time is largely to consolidate and continue their own position of privilege and power, perhaps while simultaneously diverting attention / blame onto other groups.

I don't think anything will change much. The same people are running the country as before. The same corporations own most of the infrastructure and media. What will change?

[windwalker]

But all the "data" you are putting forward is from one narrow political perspective - a perspective that as I have already mentioned doesn't fit with my own experience at ground level.

which you now suggest I go find some other sites to refute or present a different view point.
While your experience at ground level is valid and good, it is just your experience
which for some reason you dont feel necessary to contrast it with facts supporting it,
only to contest those showing otherwise.

at this point it really becomes a non starter....

like I said hope the change works out well for you and others...

No, but if you search around Im sure you could find some

haha gotta love it....

[RobP3]

But all the "data" you are putting forward is from one narrow political perspective - a perspective that as I have already mentioned doesn't fit with my own experience at ground level.

which you now suggest I go find some other sites to refute or present a different view point.
While your experience at ground level is valid and good, it is just your experience
which for some reason you dont feel necessary to contrast it with facts supporting it,
only to contest those showing otherwise.

at this point it really becomes a non starter....

like I said hope the change works out well for you and others...

I'm not sure why I need to justify my own and others personal experience with what someone else might be saying on Youtube. I can find Youtube clips from people who think the world is flat. What facts do you want to support my personal experience? I gave you some facts already - 12% of London overall is muslim. 80-85% of the UK identifies as "white British". Why are these facts not mentioned by those commentators you have posted here? What do you think could be their motivation for not doing so?

[RobP3]

like I said hope the change works out well for you and others...

Like I said, what change?

[windwalker]

But all the "data" you are putting forward is from one narrow political perspective - a perspective that as I have already mentioned doesn't fit with my own experience at ground level.

I think they did.

Thinking something and proving it as a fact is not the same....

If I present a certain view point only based on my own experience which I have on other topics its gets called into question.
which is why I then augment it with other view points that support it, which as with IMA they too start get questioned.
The people become the point not what is presented.
For me at this point it becomes pointless IMO to have a discourse about it.

just as now you are ascribing motivations to what they talk about all the while not presenting anything other then your opinion based on what some might call a limited experience.

what would be the point.....to continue for me its "non starter" no point to it....

I do find it funny you mentioned "flat earth based on for the most part peoples one experiences" Until it was shown otherwise from those with a more wider perspective that extended beyond their own experiences that it was not so..

later,,,,lots of luck with the change....

[RobP3]

I think they did.

Thinking something and proving it as a fact is not the same....

If I present a certain view point only based on my own experience which I have on other topics its gets called into question.
which is why I then augment it with other view points that support it, which as with IMA they too start get questioned.
The people become the point not what is presented.
For me at this point it becomes pointless IMO to have a discourse about it.

just as now you are ascribing motivations to what they talk about all the while not presenting anything other then your opinion based on what some might call a limited experience.

what would be the point.....to continue for me its "non starter" no point to it....

I do find it funny you mentioned "flat earth based on for the most part peoples one experiences" Until it was shown otherwise from those with a more wider perspective that extended beyond their own experiences that it was not so..

later,,,,lots of luck with the change....

I don't think they did. I don't need to ascribe motivations when they are quite clear to anyone who does a little research on the people involved. Do you think Britain First gives a balanced view of current affairs in the UK?

You might call it a limited experience, but it would seem a lot less limited than your own in this case. How much time have you spent amongst different communities in Luton?

I didn't' mention flat earth based on "experience", I said you can find clips on YT to support it - like you can find clips on YT to support anything, it seems

And, once again, what change....or is this just more cryptic comments with no actual answers posting?

[Steve James]

I don't think they did. I don't need to ascribe motivations when they are quite clear to anyone who does a little research on the people involved. Do you think Britain First gives a balanced view of current affairs in the UK?

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news ... -1-7381496

You might call it a limited experience, but it would seem a lot less limited than your own in this case. How much time have you spent amongst different communities in Luton?

You dare to suggest that actually having been there means something? Tsk, tsk, tsk, those are Dickensian expectations fer sure.

[windwalker]

I don't think they did. I don't need to ascribe motivations when they are quite clear to anyone who does a little research on the people involved. Do you think Britain First gives a balanced view of current affairs in the UK?

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news ... -1-7381496

You might call it a limited experience, but it would seem a lot less limited than your own in this case. How much time have you spent amongst different communities in Luton?

You dare to suggest that actually having been there means something? Tsk, tsk, tsk, those are Dickensian expectations fer sure.

The women, who are all 20 and African-American, claimed on Jan. 30 that up to a dozen white classmates spewed racial insults and ganged up on them on a bus. Will be charged for assault and false reporting.

Did He Help Tawana Brawley Make Up Her False Rape Accusation?

wow they most have taken a page from mr Sharpton's play book...

and the most recent and famous one "hands up dont shoot"

dispite the facts...which somehow never seem to be mentioned.

@Rob3p

I understand your points but feel its kind of hard to look at it with out some other view points...I had asked some questions that exceeded your experience which while still valid and expected it would seem that many others do not share who dont post here and have had different ones....
.
You asked about change. I would think it would be the change that those who voted to leave otherwise why leave?

It was just something that interested me reflecting some of the same things happening here, for some of the same reasons IMO/IME.
The media in the US is very bad at reporting things,,in a factual way. This to me is the real sign of the times....
As you can see by the latest postings instead of dealing with the facts,,,of what the government is doing or not,,,some find it better to stir the pot....

its easy being the victim, harder to deal with the facts....of course there are those that make a lot of money from it.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/al-sha ... id/590375/

[windwalker]

Wow, a hundred posts, it must have resonated. A few more points before I quit the thread. Most board members in the UK have only known the UK in the EU. Like most change its scary. I spent the first 30 years in a non EU Britain, it worked, apart from usual class wars, breakdown of the empire the UK was still a significant player on the world scene.

good point they have no real reference point from which to compare.

[Steve James]

On a lighter note, this reminds me of ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa4bjQGD6oY

[middleway]

Chris / I just read your rant. That was the most divisive, intolerant and whining call for unity and togetherness I've ever read. Amazed you can't see that.

I'm not lying down. I'm getting up and I'm fighting this all the way. There are many that now think article 50 will never pass. There's still hope.but not for you I fear.

So now I am a lost cause for voting on my belief that Britain would be economically better off out of the eu?? And maybe you didn't call me a racist but look at the hate thrown towards the leave voters all over Facebook! Not exactly the moral high ground now is it??

But you did just Say my thoughts and feelings on this subject were intolerant and divisive?? How exactly? Unless you believe 'british' to mean 'white'. If that is the case there is truly no hope for you either.

But after all is said and done you seem to be very intolerant of those who disagree with you, even people who a week ago you got on with rather well.

But Fair enough dude. I am finished with this subject...

[GrahamB]

Bloody racist

[yeniseri]

I don't think they did. I don't need to ascribe motivations when they are quite clear to anyone who does a little research on the people involved. Do you think Britain First gives a balanced view of current affairs in the UK?

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news ... -1-7381496

You might call it a limited experience, but it would seem a lot less limited than your own in this case. How much time have you spent amongst different communities in Luton?

You dare to suggest that actually having been there means something? Tsk, tsk, tsk, those are Dickensian expectations fer sure.

Actually, that is nothing new. Now it is out in the open for all to see.

After World War 2, many colonials under the Commonwealth migrated to build a fractured Europe and they ended up staying so the cognitive dissonance on the part of those who would put up that sign should not be seen as an outlier. That has been what many peoples from India, Africa and the Caribbean had to put up with for the past 50 years in varying degrees. Now that it is hitting home the crazies are going off the deep end. The Irish appeared to be the smart ones when they were distrustful of unification for over 300 years

[windwalker]

Actually, that is nothing new. Now it is out in the open for all to see.

Its not part of what the gov is promoting nor what many of the people there would agree with.
start by who put up the sign, or why.

“We have been engaging with the local community and making enquiries as to who is responsible for the incident.
“There are increased patrols in the area and we are carrying out further work with community leaders to allay fears and reassure residents.”

Anyone with information about the distribution of the leaflets is asked to
contact police on 101 or Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111

Read more: http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news ... z4Cj2SoIAt

maybe you should make the call,,,since its nothing new...

of course there might be a little more to it.....

Plans to allow a London council to build homes in Peterborough for its tenants have been criticised by an MP as "social cleansing".
Peterborough City Council leader Marco Cereste has been in talks with Kensington and Chelsea about working together to build houses for people in London and Peterborough.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-camb ... e-21510391

@ ken,,
thanks for good topic
very interesting.