BREXIT

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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:07 am

Option 1: The RSF Brexiters have completely changed their political opinion on this topic.

Option 2: They haven't changed, but don't care or didn't notice this space any longer.

Option 3: They were all arrested for mean tweets.


Option 4: This thread is dominated by remainers who are a) not open to discussion b) are uninformed on both sides of the brexit debate c) get all their information from the BBC. And I really cannot be arsed arguing on this board anymore.

Venting on here about how hard done by you are because a vote didnt go your way ... posting biased pieces you have not personally fact checked or researched ... these are things i cannot be bothered to be involved with.

The last time I did this i posted actual EU documents .. and the only response was 'I cant be bothered to talk about this anymore'.

I voted leave ... i am not a 'brexiter' ... that is a derogatory term the remainers use to label people all the things they believe them to me.

Im not racist, im not a nationalist, im not right wing in any metric. I am a left leaning centrist, I have a Gay brother so am obviously pro Gay rights, I am pro immigration, pro womens rights, pro- environmental protection, pro animal well fair, pro small government, pro social initiative, pro cross country co-operation ... I am also pro Europe (the continent), i have best friends from around Europe (a continent) ... i am a liberal if anything and have personally been affected by this exit process more than most i know. My wifes business has been dramatically effected by the volatility of the pound as has my own.

Must be really confusing for me not to fit the mold ... But I STILL think we should leave.

The main thing that has changed for me now is I now wonder how on gods green earth ANYONE could possible support the EU either in concept or organisation. It is like people seeing what the a dictator is up too and saying "well its better to be with them than against them". The EU flag and the MAGA hat are comparable symbols of this cognitive dissonance to me.

So to outline my position. Forewarning ... I'm not going to argue with anyone on these points.

1) The EU have shown that they are not interested in their member states.
the Irish border is as much their problem as ours. Their decision (today) to reject any and all discussions and to force us into a no deal brexit is very telling. It shows that the backstop was not to be used as they stated. The whole "just trust us we wont use it" argument that our parliament rightly rejected seems to have been bollocks after all. They are putting their own citizens in Ireland at risk ... a country they have already ruined and have had to bail our of trouble. Remainers seem to think 'Why should they re-negotiate' is a logical argument. How about because it will affect EU citizens the most! and yet we are STILL asked to believe they are a moral, humanitarian organisation?!! Next up Italy! Go EU!

2) Our politcal class are complete asshats.
May and the conservatives are unsuitable to lead. Corbyn and his useless band of idiots are dangerous unsuitable to lead ... and we have NO other options. So are stuck with May. This means a hard Brexit is inevitable, not what i wanted or believe we should have aimed towards.

3) The Remainers response to the vote result has pushed the political class into conservatism
The remainers have tared Brexiters with the brush of being idiots, of being racists. This has caused division in the nation worse than it has ever experienced (much as we see in the US with Trump supporters and the left). This has caused the political parties to split their values and judgement to cater for both sides of this deep division in an attempt to win general elections. As such Labour, who had some great ideas before the vote, are now confused, politically posturing idiots. The conservatives have lost what backbone they had and are trying to appease both sides. The Brexit talks are the casualty of this deep division.

4) the Brexiters were naive ... myself included.
I believed that democracy was a concept that the UK populace holds dear. The fact has emerged that democracy is not relevant to 50% of the population. When a vote doesn't go their way they jump to the streets. When an organisation removes their rights they applaud. Looking through history, it amazes me that remainers don't see the problem with unelected governance, but they simply don't. Its a reality I now accept. I certainly was not Naive about the EU as an organisation, i think if anything my views of them have been completely justified.

5) The media is completely disingenuous
I make a point to research all subjects AWAY from my preferred media. I will go to multiple sources for every news story. I go straight to the source and research bills and legislation itself. This isn't something everyone can do. But i can assure you that i have rarely found anything that is reported by the media that marries up with the reality. Posting fun youtube videos that align with your political view, animations narrated by the admittedly wonderful Stephen Fry, doesnt actually make what they say correct. I was actually thinking of taking that video point by point and writing a more balanced assessment of each point ... i simply didn't have the time.

Finally. We are leaving the EU. In the long run this will be the best thing for us. I predict that the EU itself will fail as a union in the next 20 years. Their conduct 'making an example of us' has made the rest of the member states nervous. Not because they dont want to go through this but because they are wondering how this unelected organisation can fuck over 10s of thousands of businesses inside the EU ... to make a point. That is what is happening. The businesses inside the EU are hurting the most because of this process, and the officials in Brussels don't seem to care at all.

I have hope our countries division can be sewn back together.

I saw a Pro EU group in my local city and went over for a chat. We talked for over an hour, they had to call over their 'big gun' who had arranged the group when my points started to go over the head of the person i was talking too. I pulled up my arguments from the EU's own documents to refute his points. In the end, he didn't have an answer, we agreed to disagree, shook hands and i went and bought the whole table a Star Bucks for being so reasonable with me.

That's how this nation is fixed. People with differing opinions respecting each other and showing each other some love.

Being at each others throats is not the answer ... and this thread seems to be largely about trying to be at each others throats were a dissenting voice enter the fray. No opinions will be changed, no views discussed reasonably as is the way here.

I will save my 'I told you so' Post for 2 years time when everything is absolutely fine ... The way things are going that will likely be my next post on this board full stop! lol.

Thanks.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:29 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:29 am

Simply staggering.

As always, it's everybody's fault but theirs.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:33 am

Simply staggering.

As always, it's everybody's fault but theirs.


Graham, Whose They? Dont put me in a little group to make you feel better. I am not in a group.

I posted my response for the others here. Not for you.

You are everything that is wrong with this subject.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:42 am

If the cap fits, wear it.

These are all quotes from your last 2 posts:

"So to outline my position. Forewarning ... I'm not going to argue with anyone on these points."

"I have hope our countries division can be sewn back together."

"That's how this nation is fixed. People with differing opinions respecting each other and showing each other some love. "

"I posted my response for the others here. Not for you. You are everything that is wrong with this subject."

I mean, have you ever listened to yourself?
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:12 am

Yes I have, dont get my posts mixed up. One is my general thoughts on ways to resolve the division of society ... they other is aimed at you personally.

My response to you personally is completely legitimate. You ARE everything that is wrong with this discussion IMO, You do nothing by demonize 'the other' while maintaining a feeling of moral superiority, you post videos that support your position without a balanced view of their content ... Demonizing 'the other' while feeling morally justified in doing so ... now where have i seen that before? Probably why you are so pro EU.

"some people I just cant talk too"

Were your words about me when you felt bad about yourself because of MY training ideals, when i hadn't even mentioned you. Have a think about how stupid that actually is.

Maybe you should stick to that hunch though.

If the cap fits, wear it.


Take a look in the mirror. That EU flag might as well be a Maga hat.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby cloudz on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:19 am

GrahamB wrote:Simply staggering.

As always, it's everybody's fault but theirs.



Dude...

It's not anyones fault they have an opinion.
We had a vote, your opinion lost the vote. Pretty simple really. Democracy, get it ?

FWIW I voted remain even though I want us to ultimately leave the EU. But i'd rather not go into it all again.
May's deal is allright by me if she can make it happen and sort out the backstop issue.
If she does, she probably deserves a bloody knighthood.
Last edited by cloudz on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:25 am

Dude...

It's not anyones fault they have an opinion.
We had a vote, your opinion lost the vote. Pretty simple really. Democracy, get it ?

FWIW I voted remain even though I want us to ultimately leave the EU. But i'd rather not go into it all again.
May's deal is allright by me if she can make it happen and sort out the backstop issue.
If she does, she probably deserves a bloody knighthood.


I wish i could make my posts as clear and to the point as yours. Well said mate.

With that i am off this thread. If any specific questions crop up i may jump back in when i am here next.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:50 am

Oh dear.

yeah, bye. Off you go. Sewing everything back together as you leave.
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:18 am

Respect democracy?

Image
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:50 am

I recall when the Brexit vote went through people critcized the experts because the economy didn't come crashing down yet it now occurs to me that the experts were talking about if Brexit actually happened.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:10 pm

grzegorz wrote:I recall when the Brexit vote went through people critcized the experts because the economy didn't come crashing down yet it now occurs to me that the experts were talking about if Brexit actually happened.


Yep. But what do 'experts' know eh?

You can tack the job loses so far, and it's going to get a lot worse. Apparently this is all worth it in the long run... yeah right. For what exactly?????

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/

Brexit Job Loss Index: 208,387 Jobs Lost So Far
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:54 pm

Well you know... It's worth it for fuck the immigrants.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:04 pm

Yeah, screw them. Coming over here and paying taxes so we can afford a welfare state. Pft!

Now we all have to eat sprouts and porridge for a year because granddad doesn't like Polish people working Tesco. Fucks sake.

But the real shit show is going to be Northern Ireland. Back to guns and balaclavas there. Just wait till the bombs start dropping on the mainland.

I wonder if it will still be "worth it" then?

This is never going to end.
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm

And for the record, you can't buy me with a cheap-ass Starbucks. World's worst coffee right there. -barf-
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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:42 pm

I wouldn't buy you one. Gestures of solidarity and friendship are entirely lost on you. Isn't all this anger and hate for other people wearing you out in your old age? Take it easy dude... your getting old remember.. you might end up with a heart attack!!

Hahaha experts .... is that whats being posted here?? That's pretty funny.

Now I could post some guys opinion on employment since brexit .... some random remainer collating data ... from thin air by his own admission! Read the page!

Or I could look at the financial Times article on the economy from a month or so ago. Let's look at what the actual facts are on employment.

[url] https://www.ft.com/content/cf51e840-714 ... f383b09ff9
[/url]

With the unemployment rate down to 4 per cent between March and May, its lowest rate since the mid 1970s, the labour market has strengthened significantly since the EU referendum. This is the glaring exception to otherwise disappointing data. Not only is employment up, but most of the growth has been in full-time jobs. The number of people in part-time jobs and in self-employment is now falling gently and more than offset by the rise in full-time work, reducing concerns that people are underemployed.


Well waddaya know!!

Well you know... It's worth it for fuck the immigrants.


Did you miss the part where I said I was pro immigration?

The EU is only pro movement of people inside the eu. It is expressly detailed in their charter. I can post a link if you like ... a largely white populace by the way. Hardly the moral high ground ... if you are legally migrating from other countries, good luck.

Someone from Sri Lanka wanting to emigrate to the UK is FAR less likely to get here with us inside the eu. A good friend is currently being deported under EU law after seeking asylum here when he was about 3 because he has now hit 18. If he was from an EU member state that wouldn't happen.

So humane huh. So 'pro immigration' of them ...

as for polish people. One of my best friends is polish. After brexit he will claim citizenship ... that is not at risk, he isn't worried.

Completely uniformed opinion peices is the theme of this thread. Memes, pictures, websites ... even cartoons! There is no end to it. Balanced perspective is entirely absent.

We are still leaving. So ... what's the point here?

As for Ireland. Ireland is an eu member. Why aren't the eu protecting irelands interests??? Why arent the eu doing everything they can to avoid the balaclavas?

'They shouldn't have too .... it's our choice to leave... it's your fault ... blah blah blah. "

No. You are factually wrong. It's their responsibility to protect their member states interests. They are failing spectacularly. They are putting economics ahead of peace and the people inside the eu.

I guess it's ok... multiple countries ruined by the EUs economic policies now... Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland.... and now the Irish have to bare the brunt of their stupidity once again. Throw that blue flag in the air with pride!!!

Pah.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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