BREXIT

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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:51 am

You had a decent argument Misty. The only problem is Russia, Cambridge Analytica, Moldovan and Russian troll farms have all been proven to have used social media for the destruction of democracies. In fact Russia itself is now considered unplugging from the internet understanding the full power of the internet. Not sure how much you know or if you ever lived in Poland or Ukraine but I saw some of these things happen with my own eyes. I am not saying you have to agree with me in fact quite the opposite, I don't expect you to agree with me. But to say my say my statements are stupid are as stupid as putting all your faith in the dictator for life President Xi.

China, yeah been there done that. My life is much better here (back in the West) and my ears don't constantly ring from the sound of squeeky scooter breaks and my eyes aren't all screwed up and red from all the air pollution. Also I don't have to hide my books when I through the airport or worry about them getting confiscated. You like China? Then that's great I am happy for you. Most rich westerners I knew their eventually cashed out their chips and found a better life outside of China once they made their money.

But to say forget the West based stats sounds like what most people say when they first move to Asia. Yet much like the 10 Worst States thread it doesn't present the whole picture. I would never move to Arizona, for example, but many Californians do because houses are affordable and corporations are moving there because of low taxes. Needless to say people are finding and living the American dream in Chandler and Scottsdale although many other in parts of the state have it rough.

Me personally, I am union worker and I what I get I could never get in Asia.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:00 am

As far as the rise of the right in the EU and Brexit as Eric Idle from Monty Python stated on Bill Maher last Friday, I think it all comes down to Cambridge Analytica, Troll farms, and Putin in response to the stalemate in Ukraine. In Poland secret recordings got the legit candidates booted out of office and replaced by the far right who I don't endorse in any way shape or form but I do know they are making some good policy decisions for the "forgotten man" unlike here where we had a corporate takeover.


Well worth listening to that podcast with Sam harris, The russian troll farms were playing each side off each other. Setting up Black Lives Matter Pages and Blue Lives matter pages and basically just seeding Chaos across social platforms. Very clever of them, and an explination, at least in part, for the huge divisions in society that have appeared in the last 5 year.

Thanks.


I appreciate the acknowledgement of Russian troll farms. Obviously some live in denial which I can't figure sunce it has been proven that Russians hack Hillary's email the day Trump publicly asked them to and released them when the Trump "I am groper" tape came out.

Also my wife works with the Russian cyber security expert who traced the hacking of the DNC and RNC to the Russians. So even if people want to deny these things they are only fooling themselves.

I will listen to the Sam Harris podcast. I am happy to see that all this is becoming common knowledge. I still remember debating with people who denied that Pro-Russian rebels shot down MH17.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby middleway on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:06 am

As to the more left you go then the more communist you go, I disagree. Canada is to the left of the US and not communist state. To me, communism almost always becomes an autocracy much like Belorussia where the benefits and money all go to the top which incidentally is the same thing that happens in an extreme capitalism.


Sure but, that wasnt really what I said. You can go a long way further left than Canada before you reach Communism ... but eventually thats what you reach. My point was that the further left you go the more big government is required to make things work. I dont really think thats debatable is it?
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Re: BREXIT

Postby Steve James on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:10 am

the further left you go the more big government is required to make things work. I dont really think thats debatable is it?


Further left from what? What is the middle? Is fascism the inevitable result of movement to the right?
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:18 am

middleway wrote:
As to the more left you go then the more communist you go, I disagree. Canada is to the left of the US and not communist state. To me, communism almost always becomes an autocracy much like Belorussia where the benefits and money all go to the top which incidentally is the same thing that happens in an extreme capitalism.


Sure but, that wasnt really what I said. You can go a long way further left than Canada before you reach Communism ... but eventually thats what you reach. My point was that the further left you go the more big government is required to make things work. I dont really think thats debatable is it?


I think it is. I think there is a happy middle ground. I don't see Canada or Scandinavian countries or Switzerland becoming communist. For me it's the slippery slope argument. I am taking issue with it because this is a right wing talking point, in fact it's a Trump talking point. Americans go nuts when anyone says communism.

For me the left is the fight against plutocracy and oppression.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:25 am

Steve James wrote:
the further left you go the more big government is required to make things work. I dont really think thats debatable is it?


Further left from what? What is the middle? Is fascism the inevitable result of movement to the right?


Steve, if you ever get a chance to watch Plutocracy please let me know. I think I would rename it US history they don't teach you in school.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:01 am

Misty,

True, speaking out against the Israeli government can be political suicide, just look at the present Omar vs.Trump manufactured outrage. The same with the Saudis which is where IS ideology grew out of. The US government will not stand up to the Saudis even when they kill an American resident with American children. Although some say it's because Kashoogi wasn't a citizen that is a cop out, even if the Saudis murdered a US citizen it wouldn't matter. But the fact is Trump has been an employee of Russian billionaires for over two decades. No president has ever destroyed the notes when meeting with a foreign head of state, Russian or otherwise, and no president meets with a foreign head of state one on one. Past presidents want a record of the meeting so that the foreign head of state will be held accountable for any agreements. The fact that this isn't the case with Putin and only Putin speaks volumes.

I appreciate your honesty in Russian billionaires having Israeli passports but I don't see the US as Isreal's puppet as much as I see the GOP using the Isreal to try to split the Jewish Ameircan vote and keep the Christian right on their side who believe the Isreali/US alliance is in the book of Revelations all the while giving red meat to anti-Islamic racists who have no issue with the death of Palestinians.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:11 am

Misty,

China doesn't have a welfare system or feed the poor. The growth is impressive and the middle class is growing. China has a lot of brag about but human rights isn't one of them but if money is all you want then China is the place to be. When I saw and witnessed human rights violations firsthand, I just wanted to train and get out which I did. Keep in mind that the whole reason why China opened up economically is because of the Tiananmen square massacre which had people protesting the government in every major city in China. The whole idea of capital is pay the lowest you can for workers which is why the corporations make their products in China. Therefore factories in China made the Chinese government stable and western billionaires, like the Waltons, super billionaires.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Gregorz,

I've worked for the government for a long time, and I left because of what I observed happening there and was involved with to a significant extent. Almost, everything you think you believe is fake, manufactured, manipulated, massaged, contrived to control your opinion, including much of the financial data via "respected" business news providers. If I wanted to hear these generic media "arguments", I'd watch TV.

A word of advice, if you're opinion is the same as what's being shoved down your throats via media, your letting someone else put thoughts in your head and not thinking critically. It's not for your benefit, you're being used and the system relies on such ignorance and naivety.

No one, media in particular, gives you information for free. It's for control and manipulation only.

If you don't know this, or play along with it willingly because it reinforces your world view, cognitive bias and the like, what does that make you?
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Misty,

Work in the government or not I know history like the back of my hand. I have been following recent events very closely. I called the Trump election months before he was elected. I also have a thread called the "Russians did it" where I stated that the Russians hacked the DNC long before the experts weighed in and I was absolutely right. If you want to live in denial then go ahead but you can't disprove facts. In fact your idea that the Israelis control the US is nothing more than a conspiracy theory. The US gives Isreal millions a day which is used to build up their military. So how is it that Isreal is controlling the US? Sorry we have a difference of opinion but to say I am brainwashed because I believe facts which you don't believe is disengenouis. Feel free to give me your cyber security credentials. My wife works for silicon valley. How about you? Go ahead disprove that the Russians didn't play a role in Brexit, Trump, Ukriane, the Polish elections and prove to us that Israelis control the US and explain why then the Israelis were unhappy with Obama if our presidents are just puppets. The floor is yours and I am all ears. You are right don't listen to the spin doctors, listen to the facts. Let's hear your facts.

The fact that you thought China had a welfare system astounds me but did I bust your balls? Of course not but you should know thay China also has invisible people who are often unregistered second born children who don't have any education unless the parents could afford to pay through the nose these people are basically doomed to fail.

Btw, actually I did work for the government.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:45 pm

Say what? Do you know how to read???

Reread my posts and quote me where I say China has a welfare system.

Denial? You just attributed a load of straw men to me and asked me to prove/disprove them.

Your arguments are incoherent and hysterical. These are not indicators of intelligence.

When you say you worked for the government, you mean the postal service, yeah?
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:48 pm

The military bitch!
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:50 pm

grzegorz wrote:The military bitch!


Ha! Yeah, well you got one part right "bitch". As for military, I've commanded dumbass grunts like you before.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:52 pm

MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Say what? Do you know how to read???

Reread my posts and quote me where I say China has a welfare system.

Denial? You just attributed a load of straw men to me and asked me to prove/disprove them.

Your arguments are incoherent and hysterical. These are not indicators of intelligence.

When you say you worked for the government, you mean the postal service, yeah?


Reread your own posts Marine.

Don't know too much about China's welfare system, but I do know some of their medical care is free.


Again there is no welfare system in China.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:55 pm

grzegorz wrote:
MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Say what? Do you know how to read???

Reread my posts and quote me where I say China has a welfare system.

Denial? You just attributed a load of straw men to me and asked me to prove/disprove them.

Your arguments are incoherent and hysterical. These are not indicators of intelligence.

When you say you worked for the government, you mean the postal service, yeah?


Reread your own posts Marine.

Don't know too much about China's welfare system, but I do know some of their medical care is free.


Again there is no welfare system in China.


Hahaha! Still can't read? Disrespectful little shit.

I'd have your dumbass beaten and thrown in the hole for such bullshit.
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