BREXIT

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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:53 pm

I think you've got this backwards.

No Brexiter has clearly articulated a single advantage to leaving apart from getting blue passports again, which ironically are designed in France, made in Poland and there will be no trade agreement to import them to the UK if we leave with no deal.

In contrast, by leaving the EU we give up our freedom. Freedom to live and work in any EU country. Freedom to marry an EU person without worrying about getting thrown out, being part of european science projects, trade agreements with all other nations, peace in Northern Ireland, the unity of the United Kingdom, mass unemployment if we leave with no deal, lack of medicines, etc.

I could go on, but to say what you said, I think you must be wilfully ignorant of the situation.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:25 pm

This guy actually knows what he's talking about:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- ... Z3H_YQf938
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Re: BREXIT

Postby Trick on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:13 am

GrahamB wrote:I
by leaving the EU we give up our freedom.
.

I’m no expert on this, but don’t you have to pay membership fees (yearly?) to be allowed your freedom ?
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:14 am

Yes of course the UK has to pay to be a member of the EU, as do all member countries.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/revealed-much ... 16877.html
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 pm

GrahamB wrote:I think you've got this backwards.

No Brexiter has clearly articulated a single advantage to leaving apart from getting blue passports again, which ironically are designed in France, made in Poland and there will be no trade agreement to import them to the UK if we leave with no deal.

In contrast, by leaving the EU we give up our freedom. Freedom to live and work in any EU country. Freedom to marry an EU person without worrying about getting thrown out, being part of european science projects, trade agreements with all other nations, peace in Northern Ireland, the unity of the United Kingdom, mass unemployment if we leave with no deal, lack of medicines, etc.

I could go on, but to say what you said, I think you must be wilfully ignorant of the situation.


I would argue the other way, I'm yet to see a remain argument that comes with a mechanism for that particular scare story to come to pass. Minor trade issues will iron themselves out, markets work themselves out its what they do. Though admittedly Northern Ireland is a huge challenge.

However if we leave and proactively reduce population we will see increased wages, reduced pressure on housing therefore lower cost, lower social security costs as well as reduced pressure on services and infrastructure. This is economics 101.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:24 pm

NorthernMantis - I like the way you say "proactively reduce population". Just slips off the tongue doesn't it? But imagine what that means for a second to the people who live here and never had a vote. Never got a say. Imagine the lives ruined. Imagine the children who have only known Britain being deported to a country they've never lived in. Imagine the familes split up.

And yes, Northern Ireland is a little bit of a problem. I'm sure it will all sort itself out though, eh? Just need some positive thinking. A can-do attitude.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:42 pm

GrahamB wrote:NorthernMantis - I like the way you say "proactively reduce population". Just slips off the tongue doesn't it? But imagine what that means for a second to the people who live here and never had a vote. Never got a say. Imagine the lives ruined. Imagine the children who have only known Britain being deported to a country they've never lived in. Imagine the familes split up.

And yes, Northern Ireland is a little bit of a problem. I'm sure it will all sort itself out though, eh? Just need some positive thinking. A can-do attitude.


And that is the response I always get to a well constructed economic argument, a thinly veiled implication of racial prejudice and a willingness to breach human rights. Goes to show how weak the remain argument is.

It is not rocket science to stop allowing the entry of unskilled labour whilst enjoying the benefits of skilled immigration and the multiculturalism that comes with it all whilst not breaching any human rights. Strength combined with compassion, it's the only way to operate effectively in the world.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:51 pm

Oh I think i've seen enough of your "strength combined with compassion" to last a lifetime already.

It's really working out well globally, isn't it? I mean, economically, of course.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:12 pm

GrahamB wrote:Oh I think i've seen enough of your "strength combined with compassion" to last a lifetime already.

It's really working out well globally, isn't it? I mean, economically, of course.


I still don't see any counter to my argument.

When I worked in France I was only there by virtue of having a skillset they required. I paid for everything, medical and otherwise and took nothing from the state. It was a fair reciprocal relationship with a net positive result for all parties. We are the doormat of europe and no politician dare address it because they would be subject to the same absolutely false accusations. Those who occupy the centre ground are now treated as if they are inhumanely far right.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:33 pm

What "the far right" do is perpetually play the victim card.

So far you have accussed me of calling you racist. Of calling you a human rights abuser. Of calling you "inhumanely far right".

I said none of these things. You say them all yourself. The evidence is right here.

Look in the mirror. If the cap fits, wear it. If not, you have nothing to worry about.

----

You "took nothing from the state" - but we should "stop allowing the entry of unskilled labour"


What you are doing is invoking the ghost of Schrodinger's immigrant - who is simultaneously taking money off the state (not working), whilst also taking your job (working and paying taxes).

Which is it? It can't be both.

You're just a cliché now. We're done.
Last edited by GrahamB on Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby Zonker on Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:00 pm

GrahamB wrote:And yes, Northern Ireland is a little bit of a problem. I'm sure it will all sort itself out though, eh? Just need some positive thinking. A can-do attitude.


I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic, or not. Boris' version of Brexit with regard to Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic will be far more than "a little bit of a problem." Unless, of course, Boris is willing to diminish the territory which currently constitutes the U.K. and bankrupt the Republic. It will be very interesting to see whether the Scots' independence movement gains more traction as Scotland does not wish to leave the E.U., either. It may be a pipe dream on my part, but this may be a further unraveling of the U.K.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby GrahamB on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:40 am

Zonker - yes, I was being sarcastic. Boris and his pals care nothing for peace in Ireland and the union is in grave danger.
Last edited by GrahamB on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:58 am

There is no contradiction between not wanting unskilled labour and not wanting benefit scroungers, neither benefits the UK. We simply allow people to work if they have a skill set that is required and they pay their way the same way I did in France. That way their in demand skills provides them with a high income and the state receive the net gain of taxation, there is no loser.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:03 am

Any sound argument either humanitarian or economic for Brexit just gets met with virtue signalling responses. Big government does not work for human beings that operate best in small social groups and whilst the numbers are fuzzy we do make a net financial loss from the EU, there are no downsides to leaving apart from having to resolve the NI border.
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Re: BREXIT

Postby northern_mantis on Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:08 am

And just in case it needs to be said,call of the above can be achieved whilst being friends and allies with our international neighbors. And with that I am also out.

If I ever see a well constructed argument against Brexit I will happily re-grow my hair and have my bulldog tattoo covered up.
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