Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:36 pm

One of the women whom Ian and Rob describe as having highly suspect motives is Christina Hoff Summers, a long-time feminist, who appeared for a 4 minute interview with Tucker Carlson about the dangers of the metoo movement.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E1OrL3cdIU
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Steve James on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:27 pm

Motives have nothing to do with it, unless the argument is that all these women have malicious ulterior motives. Sure, a woman can argue that some women are dishonest. However, as a man, I'm not worried that I'll be singled out in the "witch hunt" just because I'm a man. That'd be silly or paranoid or a convenient excuse for self pity. Otoh, I realize that men are as threatened by #metoo as they are of any other identifiable
movement. And, in the MSM (which for many is FOX News), the issue is not whether the movement has any validity; the question posed is whether the movement has "gone too far." In the case of gender issues, including sexual harassment, however, too far usually means any change that prevents a man from what he was doing before.

Who decides how far is far enough. What's the rational reason to argue that there's been "too much" exposure of sexual predators? When was there enough?

No one argues that "all" men are guilty. But, even if it were true, who could do anything about it? Will all men be forced to ... what? Will the genders of the Congress be reversed? Will all men be forced to register as sex offenders. (Okay. To be honest, I tell my daughter to think of all men as potential sex offenders. I don't think I'm the only father who's done the same. But, that didn't start last month or last century).

Yes, this would be a slick ploy for world domination by forcing men to give up their positions of power. Then again, most of the men complaining are powerless. It's already been pointed out that there have been rules against sexual harassment for a decade. Just as there are rules against workplace violence or threatening behavior. (I got into a heated debate with my chairman ten years ago. If that happened today, I could easily get canned. The same is true for certain behavior that could be construed to be sexually suggestive. I still say that accidents and mistaken impressions can all be fixed with manners and apologies, if necessary.

Thinking a woman will lie is like thinking she will steal. True, I don't put myself in potentially compromising positions with strange women, like students.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 pm

Mike,

To be clear, I was talking about the motives of misogynists like you, not some person on Tucker's show. You have gone from Alex Jones to Tucker. They are both equally disingenuous, but now you are just going full-on mainstream shitbag.

Tucker Carlson is the best the conservatives can muster, and that is really telling. They had to ditch their last spokesman because....They had to settle countless sexual harassment suits for tens of millions of dollars! Come off it, man! How daft can you be? How about old Roger? You are just so full of shit it's incredible. And, you still haven't answered any of my long-standing questions about your support of those who associate with Neonazis. What do you think of Jewish people? It makes me wonder what you think of women, too. Well, that's become clear. As for your sources: Even Buckley was FOS, but there was a veneer of education and he debated some of the best. Just keep on with your Hannity, Carlson, Jones, Milo, Trump crap. Like I said: you are doing God's work. Of course, I don't mean that as a compliment.

Why do you get your points (talking points from dubious sources, all of them) from media pundits? Why don't you posit your own opinions? Why don't you cite peer-reviewed research? You just suck this garbage up that is dredged up from the bottom of the bin of the worst parts of a society you couldn't even hack it in. Now you live in a society you also bitch about. Maybe you are the problem?
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby jimmy on Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:44 pm


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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:03 am

Michael wrote:One of the women whom Ian and Rob describe as having highly suspect motives is Christina Hoff Summers, a long-time feminist, who appeared for a 4 minute interview with Tucker Carlson about the dangers of the metoo movement.



I didn't describe any woman of having suspect motives. You are just playing games again.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:15 am

Michael wrote:
Rob, I'm just floored by your statement that women (you've known??) have worked in places where they have to expect and have put up with being groped.
I have never heard a woman ever say she worked in such an environment, so WTF? Am I really supposed to believe this? Human resources doesn't exist in the UK? No labour laws? No criminal laws? What??? Or were you just referencing the Elizabethan era of a sudden?



It has improved a lot over time, but the 70s was where I first saw it in the workplace. Aside from that, experiences of family / girlfriends. I understand it might make you uncomfortable to believe it, or that it doesn't fit into your world view, or at least your "online" world view. I could draw on my time working in a Crown Court too.

Or you could spend some time with my wife's team in the local police. Sexual assault, domestic violence, sex trafficking. It would be interesting to see accusations of "making it all up" made directly to alleged victims.

It's interesting, certain groups here in the UK take a similar line on "witch hunts" and the like, until it came to the Rotherham et al cases. I wonder why that was?
Last edited by RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby northern_mantis on Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:44 am

For anybody that thinks that sexism and harassment and worse against women is really at the epidemic levels claimed and not just a tool of identity politics, could you please provide links to evidence. I believe it does and will always happen in small numbers as will other crimes but I’m open minded to changing my viewpoint when proved wrong. There’s no shortage of very public claims with detailed accounts so there’s no argument to suggest the evidence is kept privately. So please provide links to emails, phone transcriptions, audio, video containing these crimes/inappropriate behaviour.

Like I said it’s easy to obtain so there must be an abundance of it if the situation is as claimed. How hard is it to put a dictaphone in your pocket to record an inappropriate conversation. If there’s anything other than an abundance of strong evidence publicly available just like the claims themselves, then there’s really nothing further to say.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:27 am

northern_mantis wrote:For anybody that thinks that sexism and harassment and worse against women is really at the epidemic levels claimed and not just a tool of identity politics, could you please provide links to evidence. I believe it does and will always happen in small numbers as will other crimes but I’m open minded to changing my viewpoint when proved wrong. There’s no shortage of very public claims with detailed accounts so there’s no argument to suggest the evidence is kept privately. So please provide links to emails, phone transcriptions, audio, video containing these crimes/inappropriate behaviour.

Like I said it’s easy to obtain so there must be an abundance of it if the situation is as claimed. How hard is it to put a dictaphone in your pocket to record an inappropriate conversation. If there’s anything other than an abundance of strong evidence publicly available just like the claims themselves, then there’s really nothing further to say.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41741615
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/446224/ADR005000-Sexual_Harassment_Report.pdf
http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/2016/03/uknationshstudy/
http://www.refinery29.uk/2016/08/119456/everyday-sexism-uk-workplace-harassment-stats
https://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/teachers-banned-classroom-sexual-misconduct-record-numbers-statistics-investigation-a7828891.html
http://mendingthesoul.org/research-and-resources/research-and-articles/abuse-is-rampant/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA9_LRBRDZARIsAAcLXjc61D1cbJ_0n0Bsl1wet_VsHDDfVZBxwVCzVOaftdIZj7R6fFNt8hYaAqiAEALw_wcB
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5112187/England-Wales-highest-number-sex-crimes.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/england-wales-police-record-highest-number-violent-sexual-crimes-eu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics
https://www.cps.gov.uk/sexual-offences
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2015/chapter1overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences#sexual-offences
Last edited by RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:11 am

I'm unclear as to what kind of evidence from criminal investigations you think will be publicly available on Youtube and similar, but the links above will bring some insight, I hope
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Dmitri on Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:37 am

And this, too, shall pass...

As a side note, -- with all this "men vs women" theme, one might wonder where do the transgender folk belong, on which side of the Blame Fence? :P

It's simple really, -- a crime reported, it needs to be investigated and either dismissed or prosecuted -- just like what society tries to do with any other crime. I don't get that makes this any more special that yer regular, run-of-the-mill murder or robbery... :-/ (aside from it currently being a hot topic in the news and some people jumping on it solely because of that...?)
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:22 am

Dmitri wrote:And this, too, shall pass...

As a side note, -- with all this "men vs women" theme, one might wonder where do the transgender folk belong, on which side of the Blame Fence? :P

It's simple really, -- a crime reported, it needs to be investigated and either dismissed or prosecuted -- just like what society tries to do with any other crime. I don't get that makes this any more special that yer regular, run-of-the-mill murder or robbery... :-/ (aside from it currently being a hot topic in the news and some people jumping on it solely because of that...?)


Right. Because all crimes are equally and fairly investigated and prosecuted. ::) Sort of the entire point here.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:01 am

I think it's all worth watching, even if Hitchens (like Harris) became shameful nationalists, as it really shows the root of this sickness. Start at 17 min for relevance.

Last edited by Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:11 am

Michael wrote:One of the women whom Ian and Rob describe as having highly suspect motives is Christina Hoff Summers, a long-time feminist, who appeared for a 4 minute interview with Tucker Carlson about the dangers of the metoo movement.


RobP3 wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:And my point is that, while there may be some very small amount of that, it's blown out of proportion and the motives behind that are highly suspect.

This.

I didn't describe any woman of having suspect motives. You are just playing games again.


I began this thread with an article from 13 women who have qualms about the metoo movement, including Christina Hoff Sommers, later shown in a video in the thread as well. Ian said he highly suspected my motives, but those are the same as their motives, and you agreed with him. By suspecting my motives, you are impugning theirs as well. The dots really connect themselves here.

Michael wrote:Rob, I'm just floored by your statement that women (you've known??) have worked in places where they have to expect and have put up with being groped.
I have never heard a woman ever say she worked in such an environment, so WTF? Am I really supposed to believe this? Human resources doesn't exist in the UK? No labour laws? No criminal laws? What??? Or were you just referencing the Elizabethan era of a sudden?


RobP3 wrote:It has improved a lot over time, but the 70s was where I first saw it in the workplace. Aside from that, experiences of family / girlfriends. I understand it might make you uncomfortable to believe it, or that it doesn't fit into your world view, or at least your "online" world view. I could draw on my time working in a Crown Court too.


I was specifically referring to your statement that women are expected to accept groping in the work place as if this were normal. This is not true today, nor at any time in my memory in the USA and I don't think you're much older than I. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it's not tolerated and women are not expected to accept it. The difference between wrongful and accepted is what's important so, it's nothing to do with my worldview, it's simply a difference in our experiences and also in your mistake of not remaining consistent in the pertinent details of what you said at first about work place groping and what you are now expanding to include, such as sex trafficking, domestic violence, rape, etc.

Or you could spend some time with my wife's team in the local police. Sexual assault, domestic violence, sex trafficking. It would be interesting to see accusations of "making it all up" made directly to alleged victims.

I never said it was made up and I do not deny these things occur. You're the one who posted the article about a UK woman convicted of false rape allegations on her fourth go after having already put a man behind bars falsely for 7 years, so we're neither of us disputing that occurs, however rarely. Why are you becoming so defensive?

It's interesting, certain groups here in the UK take a similar line on "witch hunts" and the like, until it came to the Rotherham et al cases. I wonder why that was?

Can you explain this? I'm not sure which attitude you're expecting people to have in order to agree or disagree with you. Your reference is unclear.
EDIT: Ah, I just realized your meaning about witch hunt hypocrisy.
Last edited by Michael on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:37 am

Michael wrote:[ Why are you becoming so defensive?



More games.
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