everything wrote:Thanks, I found it interesting. When I've been pushed (never encountered jumping) in a "mysterious" way and in non-mysterious ways, it did feel a bit like a wave kind of force. Anyway, matter supposedly has wave-like properties, the same as light, according to this hypothesis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave
It would be better to understand what a wave is and whats different in terms of moving energy.
"A batter is able to transport energy from her to the softball by means of a bat. The batter applies a force to the bat, thus imparting energy to the bat in the form of kinetic energy. The bat then carries this energy to the softball and transports the energy to the softball upon collision.
In this example, a bat is used to transport energy from the player to the softball. However, unlike wave phenomena, this phenomenon involves the transport of matter. The bat must move from its starting location to the contact location in order to transport energy. In a wave phenomenon, energy can move from one location to another, yet the particles of matter in the medium return to their fixed position. A wave transports its energy without transporting matter."
One important point is the "medium" what the wave interacts with and moves through. You've mentioned the jumping "hopping" shown in the first clip, most if not all clips in which people doing the demos that can produce what could be described as a wave but may not be called or looked on as such by those doing the demos all tend to react in the same ways.
"When I've been pushed (never encountered jumping) in a "mysterious" way and in non-mysterious ways"
Consider your statement, you would not react as such because you or those you've interacted with were "pushing". What you mentioned as feeling like a wave was not intentionally done it happened accidentally. If it was intentionally done by someone who could do it, according to their skill level you would most likely find yourself involuntarily reacting to it.
The shape and manor of the reaction accords with the skill level of the person doing it, and the medium the person is working or interacting with.
Consider what destructive and constructive means as shown in the clip on waves, and the interactions it produces or canciles out.
One way of defining internal , external practices or movements might be the way in which energy is transported
Some one asked about interactions with those not in the group ect. would they have the same reactions or any reaction.
One test of this that most look for, is whether they can feel what or how they were moved at the contact point.
Or whether the reaction produces a reaction out of proportion to the movement.
IME most are surprised to find themselves being moved with out feeling what is moving them....They don't feel it as someone pointed out because they are moving themselves their bodies reaction on a unconscious level trying to maintain its own equilibrium.
"When a wave is present in a medium (that is, when there is a disturbance moving through a medium), the individual particles of the medium are only temporarily displaced from their rest position. There is always a force acting upon the particles that restores them to their original position. "
Its called "restoring force" The body or bodies as shown in the first clip are each reacting to something they feel which is why they either move down or up and continue to do so. If one asked if they were consciously doing it, they would say no, but are reacting to what they feel. ie if they "feel" like they'er falling they will tend to extend their legs trying to find ground, on finding the ground unexpectedly the reaction will cause them to be pushed up.
a good test you might try is to try and cause someone to jump picking up both legs in doing so.
How this is done can very.
" 1. “Yang Lu Chan’s fajin was empty, leaving the opponent not knowing what happened or how the jin was released. His jin was so perfected as to be called mysterious.”
2. “Yang Ban Hou’s fajin was SUDDEN, like lightning without rain, emerging from nowhere with the sounds of «Pa!». One fajin would send the opponent out many zhang ( 1 zhang = 3.3 meters). His jin would leave people in pain and injured.”
3. “Yang Jien Hou would use the lightest of touch, his sticking energy was so high that people could not disconnect, then they would be suddenly released like an arrow from a bow.”
4. “Yang Shao Hou’s jin was ever spontaneous and song to the extreme, fast beyond compare. His body skills were mysterious and treacherous like a ghost appearing and reappearing, fooling his opponents so they would have no idea what was happening or how to defend themselves until they had fallen to his jin before even knowing it.”
5. “Yang Chen Fu’s fajin was powerful with great sudden dantien force. Before he would fa there was a deep intention; when he would fa it was like Guang Gong taking off a head with a single stroke…”
"Yang Jien Hou said:
When you hit people with Fa Jin it must cause both your opponents feet to leave the ground and jump back. They should feel pain on both feet (because of jumping) but not on the contact point, they just feel it as soft and fast. This is correct!! “
http://discovertaiji.com/en/yang-family-fajin_91.html"We can see examples of this correct fajin in the videos above as well as demonstrated by some present day teachers.
Real taijiquan fajin is not lost."
This might help to illustrate some of what is being talked about here.
Also shows some clips of different teachers doing the same things.
I tend to use physics as a medium for talking about and explaining things. It is interesting as those I work with often long term taiji players native speakers of chinese often cite taiji verses that correspond to the physics used to describe what they've felt.
I used to use the common sayings, qi, yi, paradigm but found that until a certain level is reached it tends to confuse rather then help.
Others may find different.