100 Russians killed by US forces

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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Peacedog on Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Here is video from the fight.

Note to self, never get into a fight where the other side has air superiority and assets on station:

http://www.wearethemighty.com/news/watc ... s-in-syria

While this may be one small scene, reliable sources indicate the numbers are closer to 300 than 5.
Last edited by Peacedog on Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:16 am

With time we should have a clearer idea of what happened. According to Vice the Russians and Pro-Assad Syrians attacked the Americans and the Americans called in an air strike.

Here is footage from a UK tabloid. I don't know how accurate it is but it shows tanks exploding. I have a feeling that there is a lot being covered up on both sides.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5572695/u ... ank-syria/
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:38 am

Military Times states that the US sighted 300 fighters and took out as many as 100

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... -in-syria/

Yet some in the Russian media believe these were mostly Russian fighters in which if true it would explain the Russian government downplaying the issue.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Peacedog on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:28 am

I think the main reason the Russian government is downplaying the issue is that they really don't want to provoke the US, and particularly our current president, into doing something "drastic."

Also keep in mind, no one really knows how much of this was an effort on the part of the on the ground Russian commander versus something coordinated from Moscow. This wouldn't be the first time someone got over extended by taking the initiative in an inappropriate manner. While this is relatively more uncommon with Russians given their top down command and control system, never discount the degree to which the on the ground forces can get itchy for some action, particularly since Syria is a long way from Moscow.

Also, this could simply have been an attempt by Moscow to test the nature of American resolve in the region. The last US president probably would have blinked. The current one probably won't.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:38 am

Peacedog wrote:Also, this could simply have been an attempt by Moscow to test the nature of American resolve in the region.


Pawns in a chess game.

I don't think gives Trump even thinks about Syria in fact he wanted to end all these wars when he was campaigning but did nothing of the sort. The US has no clear international goals, it was supposed America first.

The Russians claimed the same in Ukraine. That their military presence there were locals or mercenaries these so-called little green men.

The Russians are not afraid of Trump, who never ever criticizes them, in fact I am positive that Trump played no roll on the call in fact he has given the military free reign to do whatever they wish. I think what happened was that the US did not know these were Russians and they called in the Air Force or Navy to turn around the invaders. Russia denies they were there because it goes against their propaganda that they can hand us our asses.

The Azerbaijani poster in the Russians thread often repeated the line that the Russians will kick American ass in Ukraine because "they" believe we are a bunch of idiots, which is fair enough, but incorrect about our military. But even as a vet I still believe all war is basically just a way for politicians to stay in power and boost their popularity.

Putin's popularity has never higher than when he invaded Ukraine and when he had apartments blown up in .Moscow and blamed it on Chechens.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:43 am

Trump Gives Generals More Freedom on ISIS Fight
Pentagon brass take lead on decisions that were made by White House under Obama; ‘I authorize my military,’ Trump says

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-give ... 1492218994

Trump outsourced the presidency.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Michael on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:47 am

When Russia got involved in Syria in 2015, I remember Putin saying that they would not be drawn into a war and he would not put soldiers at risk. My first thought upon this news of Russians being killed in a battle and the numbers being minimized or dismissed by the Kremlin was that the reason is it would make Putin look bad, to have essentially won in Syria, but then suffer these kinds of casualties.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:03 am

Michael wrote:When Russia got involved in Syria in 2015, I remember Putin saying that they would not be drawn into a war and he would not put soldiers at risk. My first thought upon this news of Russians being killed in a battle and the numbers being minimized or dismissed by the Kremlin was that the reason is it would make Putin look bad, to have essentially won in Syria, but then suffer these kinds of casualties.


QFT.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:17 am

More pawns in the chess game.

Russian, Iranian, and Syrian forces claim to have killed 98 today.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Azer on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:16 pm

grzegorz wrote:
Peacedog wrote:The Azerbaijani poster in the Russians thread often repeated the line that the Russians will kick American ass in Ukraine because "they" believe we are a bunch of idiots, which is fair enough, but incorrect about our military. But even as a vet I still believe all war is basically just a way for politicians to stay in power and boost their popularity.


No Greg, your allegations about my commentary and my nationality are both erroneous. If you make such assertion, I challenge you to back them with evidence in the form of quotes from my comments. Good luck!

I did however say that I believe you are an idiot, and I fully stand by my assertion as evidenced by my previous lengthy discussions with you. The fact that you "missremember" the nature of my comment only confirms my judgement.

As for much of the rest of your analysis, if it can be called that, I have as much interest in addressing that as I have in trying to show a dog how to work a quantitative model.

So Sesame Street, if your gonna mention me in your comments, back up what you say, or keep me out of it.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:49 pm

Ruski please...
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Azer on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:44 pm

Oh that's right, I forgot, this is more your street..

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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:41 pm

BloombergPolitics

White House Considers Citing Russian Deaths in Syria as Sign of U.S. ResolveBy 

Jennifer Jacobs

February 21, 2018, 12:09 PM EST


Trump’s spokeswoman makes oblique reference to Syria battle

More than 200 mercenaries may have died in Feb. 7 fight

The Trump administration is considering citing the deaths of scores of Russian mercenaries in a Feb. 7 battle with U.S.-backed forces in Syria as evidence of the president’s tough stance toward the Kremlin, a person familiar with the matter said.

White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders made an oblique reference to “an incident” on Tuesday, as she argued that President Donald Trumphas been tougher on Russia than his predecessor Barack Obama. She was alluding to the Syria battle -- an episode that threatens to deepen tensions with Moscow.

“He has done a number of things to put pressure on Russia and to be tough on Russia. Just last week, there was an incident that will be reported in the coming days, and another way that this president was tough on Russia,” Sanders said in a briefing for reporters.

Trump himself would like to publicly make the case that the battle shows his resolve to confront Moscow, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He faces greater pressure to act after the indictment of 13 Russians and a St. Petersburg “troll farm” on Feb. 16 for allegedly leading a coordinated effort to influence the 2016 election. In a weekend tweet storm, Trump claimed the indictment exonerated him, but never criticized Russia.

The U.S. has not previously publicly acknowledged that Russians were among the fighters killed in the Feb. 7 battle. Sanders’ characterization of the event as evidence that the president has been “tougher on Russian in the first year than Obama was in eight years combined” could antagonize the Kremlin. Sanders declined further comment on Wednesday.

It’s unclear when the White House learned of the attack or the composition of the Russian forces. And if Trump wanted to show his resolve to confront Russia, there are easier ways: he could enact sanctions Congress has already approved in retaliation for the election meddling or publicly criticize the Russian campaign.

In the Syria battle, a force comprised of Russian mercenaries and allied units fighting on behalf of Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad attacked a base held by U.S.-backed forces, mainly Kurds, in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, according to U.S. and Russian officials familiar with the matter. After 20 to 30 artillery and tank rounds landed near the Kurds and U.S. soldiers acting as advisers, the U.S. coalition responded with artillery and airstrikes, Pentagon spokeswoman Dana White said Feb. 8.

U.S. forces used a deconfliction line with the Russian military to inquire whether the attacking force was theirs. White said that U.S. officials “were in regular communication with Russian counterparts before, during and after the attack.”

The U.S. counterattack turned back the assault and may have killed more than 200 of the mercenaries and injured scores more, according to people familiar with the matter.

Both the Kremlin and the Pentagon have downplayed the incident. Russia’s military said it had nothing to do with the attack and the U.S. accepted the claim. Regardless, it was the deadliest clash between citizens of the two countries since the Cold War.

A U.S. official confirmed Tuesday that Russian casualties were in the low triple digits, and said one fighter among the U.S.-backed forces was injured. The Russian Foreign Ministry has acknowledged five Russian deaths in the incident.

The Russians were part of Wagner Group, a firm owned by a Kremlin-connected businessman named Yevgeny Prigozhin, according to the people familiar with the incident.

Prigozhin, known as “Vladimir Putin’s chef," was among the 13 Russians named in the 37-page criminal indictment Special Counsel Robert Mueller filed Feb. 16.

The Russian assault on the base in Syria may have been a rogue operation, underscoring the complexity of a conflict that started as a domestic crackdown on dissidents by Assad only to morph into a proxy war involving Islamic extremists, stateless Kurds and regional powers Iran, Turkey and now Israel. 

The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, warned the Trump administration on Feb. 19 not to “play with fire” in Syria by supporting the autonomy-seeking Kurds, who have helped the U.S. largely eradicate the Islamic State militant group’s presence in the country.

— With assistance by Margaret Talev

Before it's here, it's on the Bloomberg Terminal. 

LEARN MORE

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -s-resolve
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm

All things being equal, although I see it differently, the above article does back PD's argument.

Peacedog wrote:I think the main reason the Russian government is downplaying the issue is that they really don't want to provoke the US, and particularly our current president, into doing something "drastic."

Also keep in mind, no one really knows how much of this was an effort on the part of the on the ground Russian commander versus something coordinated from Moscow. This wouldn't be the first time someone got over extended by taking the initiative in an inappropriate manner. While this is relatively more uncommon with Russians given their top down command and control system, never discount the degree to which the on the ground forces can get itchy for some action, particularly since Syria is a long way from Moscow.

Also, this could simply have been an attempt by Moscow to test the nature of American resolve in the region. The last US president probably would have blinked. The current one probably won't.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 100 Russians killed by US forces

Postby Peacedog on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:23 am

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