Autogenic Training

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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:45 pm

...I am not sure it is intention alone or it is the know-how in performing certain action.


Something you see sometimes is that an explanation changes while the phenomena described remain the same. A famous example is the shift to a Copernican understanding of the orbits of planets. Copernicus was not quite right, but his explanation was closer to right than what went before.

As it turns out, the scientific explanations of how AT works are not set in stone, with some researchers wanting to differentiate it more clearly from hypnosis. Early on it was thought just a variation on the same theme.

What I, as a non-expert, can tell you is that AT's "Standard Exercises" induce a relaxed and suggestible frame of mind. There are specific steps to follow, but they are all directed by your own intention. So there is know-how involved, but you have to be taught even something as simple as how to punch properly.

You can, of course, learn to punch according to various styles, or even take an unskilled poke without training. Likewise, there are various ways, as taught by various sources, of reaching a suggestible trance state, and even some unskilled ways to get there such as staring into a flickering fire or rippling water.
Last edited by klonk on Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby yeniseri on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:44 am

There are elements of AT in some methods of yangshengong (read qigong) practices and it is good in order to try to bring "reality" into focus and be really involved with self cultuvation and truly nourishing one's spirit.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Traumatic experiences have adverse effects on the subconscious and various psychological methods or external stimuli such as sounds, colors, suggested ideas, etc. also have certain impact on the subconscious as well. Sun Lutang had suggested that the reverse training methods developed by the saints can cultivate our congenital energy. This is relevant to our subconscious and autonomic nervous system but one needs to differentiate between reverse training and other activities after birth
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:30 pm

Dr. Luis de Rivera, an authority on AT, claims that the basic process that is going on in AT has been done, under one name or another, for thousands of years.

AT brings forth the opposite of the autonomic "fight or flight" reaction, a state that some call the "rest and digest" response. Some psychiatrists use this peaceful, connected state to help patients locate and let go of past traumas.
Last edited by klonk on Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:09 am

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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:05 am

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2013/267959/

Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine
Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 267959, 6 pages
http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/267959
Review Article
Acupuncture Effect and Central Autonomic Regulation
Qian-Qian Li, Guang-Xia Shi, Qian Xu, Jing Wang, Cun-Zhi Liu, and Lin-Peng Wang
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:27 am

It is interesting to find our various methods to activate the parasympathetic nervous system. I think the right kind of exercise and acupuncture can activate the PNS directly compare to the indirect methods of AT and meditation, etc.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:02 pm

The paper that suggests the balance between parasympathetic versus sympathetic systems is a matter of yin-yang is perhaps a little too facile on that point, since there are very few dualities that cannot be discussed that way. Still, it is a good paper that bears out the idea that in autonomic regulation we are looking at the very latest in ancient discoveries.

Dr. Herbert Benson, author of The Relaxation Response, says that the PNS response can be initiated in many ways including jogging down the street with an attitude of passive concentration. Repetition (of a word, an idea or an action) together with the detached but focused mindset is all it takes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_HrQSn-DTc

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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:33 pm

What I'm ending up doing in my own explorations is using Dr. Benson's very simple induction method, but then following that up with some of the activities from AT that are more sophisticated than that. Benson's method aims mainly at calming the patient.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:32 am

I am sure but there is a difference between in the rational approach and the religious approach in resolving the problems of fear, stress, and anxiety. There are certain innate ideas that can not be rationalized compare to certain traumatic experiences that have causal relationship to fear for example.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:24 pm

The unconscious mind does not see a clear distinction. At the wrong moment when you are crossing the street, a New York taxi driver can be as frightening as Satan himself.

As a religious man myself, I think it is a false distinction to say that one fear is rational, the other is not.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:09 pm

Very little is surface from the unconscious mind to the conscious mind, may be being religious helps. But still we do try to rationalize what little is known from the unconscious mind. I think repetition will reinforce things that we can not rationalize or can not accept such as conscience for example.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:16 pm

The unconscious mind gives many everyday clues about its operation. Hunches, dreams, inexplicable preferences and/or aversions, or even psychosomatic ailments are surface manifestations of the unseen work going on down below. Most people do not need to dig any deeper than that. Such manifestations are enough to let you know something is bothering you in the back of your mind.

As to reinforcement, there is something to be careful about in using it. You must be careful to reinforce the right thing, not the wrong thing. Evil propaganda works upon the same brain mechanisms as noble inspiration. Indeed, some people have confused one with the other, with saddening consequences.

Likewise, autosuggestion should be used with care. A classic mistake is to suppress a symptom that should be treated at its root cause, such as headaches, which may have serious biological causes that need medical treatment instead of a placebo. Similarly, sometimes an attack of conscience is a good thing.
Last edited by klonk on Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby Yeung on Thu May 03, 2018 3:17 am

Thank you for you patience and help in my following of parasympathetic nerve stimulation.
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Re: Autogenic Training

Postby klonk on Thu May 03, 2018 1:49 pm

I am happy to talk about it. I have lately become enthusiastic about AT's potential. You know enthusiasts love to talk... :D
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