Syria Now

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Re: Syria Now

Postby grzegorz on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:47 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:Are the US and EU governments into this conflict with a humanitarian heart for the people of Syria or is it because of something else? Get the feeling that US/EU seem to be the aggressors wanting to attack another nation


No EU country wants war in Syria.

I don't know how it is to be an American, but you who live in the US, don't you feel rage against the government who is always prepared to throw away young american lives when oil comes into play? The US never cares about genocides, or anything that happens in Africa or in any non-oil country. But as soon oil comes int play, they seem to always be eager to start war. :-\


How do we feel? I can tell you that I feel like a foreigner in my own country because instead of my fellow country men and women questioning endless war they tell me the media is liberal, Muslims want to take over the world, and we have to fight them over there so they don't come over here. Like many Poles and Hungarians we have been brainwashed to believe that authoritarianism is the answer to all our fears.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:05 am

grzegorz wrote:UK and France(their governments) seem hot on it


UK and France are not "the EU."

Two NATO countries would have been accurate.

.[/quote]
Those two send most of the troops for obvious reason, with the support from from most if not all EU countries...There is big talks about creating an EU-army in a soon future, and that one would of course work side by side with NATO(US)......But who knows with the politicians to be, maybe they will play an EU vs US war :o
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:23 am

grzegorz wrote:
Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:Are the US and EU governments into this conflict with a humanitarian heart for the people of Syria or is it because of something else? Get the feeling that US/EU seem to be the aggressors wanting to attack another nation


No EU country wants war in Syria.

I don't know how it is to be an American, but you who live in the US, don't you feel rage against the government who is always prepared to throw away young american lives when oil comes into play? The US never cares about genocides, or anything that happens in Africa or in any non-oil country. But as soon oil comes int play, they seem to always be eager to start war. :-\


How do we feel? I can tell you that I feel like a foreigner in my own country because instead of my fellow country men and women questioning endless war they tell me the media is liberal, Muslims want to take over the world, and we have to fight them over there so they don't come over here. Like many Poles and Hungarians we have been brainwashed to believe that authoritarianism is the answer to all our fears.

Trump has got a lot of heat because his genitalia grabbing talk and supposed lifestyle. How about the US media and political opposition now, are they giving the Presidend even more heat and blame for this quite tensed war threat that could escalate into full scale war? ...Threatening other countries with full scale war must be a little bit more evil than locker room talk?
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Re: Syria Now

Postby RobP3 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:31 am

Heard last night on BBC Newsnight
"Well the Russians are being aggressive. They have threatened to shoot down the missiles we may fire at them!"
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Steve James on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:54 am

RobP3 wrote:Heard last night on BBC Newsnight
"Well the Russians are being aggressive. They have threatened to shoot down the missiles we may fire at them!"


:)
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Steve James on Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:02 pm

We are striking Syria at this moment.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby grzegorz on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:07 pm

Trick wrote:Those two send most of the troops for obvious reason, with the support from from most if not all EU countries...There is big talks about creating an EU-army in a soon future, and that one would of course work side by side with NATO(US)......But who knows with the politicians to be, maybe they will play an EU vs US war :o


Well that has not happened yet so saying it is the EU is way off. That would be like saying NAFTA or the TPP attacked Syria.

But yes, I get it this is a way to stir up anti-EU sentiment.

I could care less either way but I will take facts over fiction.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:34 pm

Mattis: US, UK and France taking decisive action in Syria
Pentagon briefing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92zZ41P7c4E
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Trick on Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:15 am

grzegorz wrote:
Trick wrote:Those two send most of the troops for obvious reason, with the support from from most if not all EU countries...There is big talks about creating an EU-army in a soon future, and that one would of course work side by side with NATO(US)......But who knows with the politicians to be, maybe they will play an EU vs US war :o


Well that has not happened yet so saying it is the EU is way off. That would be like saying NAFTA or the TPP attacked Syria.

But yes, I get it this is a way to stir up anti-EU sentiment.

I could care less either way but I will take facts over fiction.

Well in many ways it's convenient that NATO and EU HQ are in the same City
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Steve James on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:05 am

NATO, by default, includes the EU countries and the US. There may one day be a unified EU military, which in some ways might be helpful in deterring intra-European wars. However, imo, there's never going to be an EU v NATO (or US) conflict. European wars have always been about obtaining land (und raum). After WW2, the conflict was about political control, and only changed after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Putin (with the annexation of Crimea) sort of rolled things back to the old pattern. I recall people saying that Crimea, and even the Ukraine, were historically part of the Russian Empire. True, but that logic opens up a big can of worms.

Anyway, afa Syria, my military curiosity will be satisfied when I hear the results of the raid. I want to know if missiles were shot down. I doubt it; I think that RT would tell us. There will be a Pentagon briefing shortly, I'm sure. From a non-MSM source, https://www.aljazeera.com/

I'm also certain the missile strikes won't change much. Bombings just produce more casualties, and refugees. We'll spend billions to kill, but fail to provide for the survivors and turn away those who flee.

I don't know how much a cruise missile or bomb costs, but I'll bet one would buy a lot of food, medicine, tents, and maybe enough to build a school to boot.

**So, I just had to go to FOX, and sure enough, one speaker said "and when you see those missiles launched from that destroyer, you're watching freedom and democracy." ... Of course, then he went on to point out what Obama didn't do in 2013, alas. Anyhow, watching the Pentagon briefing now.
Last edited by Steve James on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Peacedog on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:10 am

It’s important to keep in mind that outside the U.K., France and to a much smaller degree Germany that none of the other European countries have the ability to do anything in Syria short of deploying ground troops. And in most cases they would need to do it in conjunction with the US or the before mentioned countries.

Now the most interesting thing to come out of the recent attack is the Russians claiming 71 of 103 missiles fired by the coalition were shot down. If true, this shows just how available missile defense is to people who can pay for it.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Steve James on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:29 am

If true, this shows just how available missile defense is to people who can pay for it.


The general at the Pentagon briefing going on right now says that Syria fired 40 aa missiles and none were successful. No friendly aircraft were hit, and all targets were struck. Photos of the chemical facilities before and after the strikes seem to confirm it. Gen. Mckenzie also says that the Russian defense capabilities were not turned on.

A 70% success rate, would be extraordinary. However, it's no different than WW2. Having a 30% success rate of hitting the objective is more than enough. There were only three targets. That means that 10 packages, on average, hit each target. ... But, of course, if they knew it was coming, they'd move their stuff right away.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Peacedog on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:42 am

Keep in mind the briefer mentioned “anti-aircraft” missiles. That doesn’t necessarily include shots taken at Tomahawk and other vehicle delivered munitions.

I suspect the real truth lies somewhere between the Pentagon and Russian reporting.

I also imagine a horde of analysts are jumping thru their asses right now updating war planning numbers if any of the Russian systems worked.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby Steve James on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:14 am

If 50% of the missiles (tomahawks and others) hit their intended targets, that's a 100% success rate if the target is destroyed. If the Pentagon is believed, the Russian defenses were not employed.

There's going to be overstatement and self-congratulations on both sides. You're right that the "truth" is somewhere in between. If the objective was to prevent more chemical attacks, who knows if it will work. What it won't stop are Assad's conventional attacks, which have probably killed many more.
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Re: Syria Now

Postby grzegorz on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:34 am

Steve James wrote:NATO, by default, includes the EU countries and the US. There may one day be a unified EU military, which in some ways might be helpful in deterring intra-European wars. However, imo, there's never going to be an EU v NATO (or US) conflict. European wars have always been about obtaining land (und raum). After WW2, the conflict was about political control, and only changed after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Putin (with the annexation of Crimea) sort of rolled things back to the old pattern. I recall people saying that Crimea, and even the Ukraine, were historically part of the Russian Empire. True, but that logic opens up a big can of worms.



Steve, not sure if you are aware but according to RT the EU is a threat to Russia both militarily and economically. Point being none of this has a anything to do with the EU if anything the US, UK and French alliance started with World War I.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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