Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Andy_S on Tue May 20, 2008 9:19 pm

This is quite disturbing to watch and listen to...especially since the subject died.

The two priests who conducted the rite and her parents were jailed: The court thought that they should have sent the girl for psychiatric treatment rather than "exorcising" her. FYI, this was the German case on which the film "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" was based.

If you ask me, the court made the right decision: She was seriously ill and her care-givers contributed to her death.

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=x4n9vK0_mdk

Anyway....what do you think? Are there demons among us, or is this simply a very, very nasty psychiatric disorder? And in the patient's mind - is there a difference?
Services available:
Pies scoffed. Ales quaffed. Beds shat. Oiks irked. Chavs chinned. Thugs thumped. Sacks split. Arses goosed. Udders ogled. Canines consumed. Sheep shagged.Matrons outraged. Vicars enlightened. PM for rates.
User avatar
Andy_S
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:16 pm

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Ian on Wed May 21, 2008 4:10 am

These things usually come out of areas where people believe in possession by demons or animistic spirits. Lots of stories of this ilk come out of Indonesia and the Philippines, for example, but not China.
Last edited by Ian on Wed May 21, 2008 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ian

 

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 21, 2008 4:43 am

we ourselves can and will become what our minds indicate we are.

there are pernicious external influences, but it is highly superstitious to attribute them with consciousness.

the demons are your own as are the angels. :)
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7061
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby BillyK on Wed May 21, 2008 5:51 am

FYI, you have to pass a test to be considered possessed in the catholic church. they don`t just go and send their exorcists to every epileptic.

the 3 prerequisties for being considered possessed are:

1. being able to speak in languages previously unknown to the patient, or being able to understand unknown languages
2. being able to reveal "far away and hidden things" (claivoyance)
3. having physical powers that are abnormal for the patient's age and constitution

also, poltergeist phenomena.


so, contrary to popular belief, at least the catholic church actually distinguishes between possession and "normal" psychological diseases - i don't think epilepsia or schizophrenia suddenly makes you speak ancient greek or makes you clairvoyant.

also, fun fact: some of the members of aum shinryikyo who were responsible for the sarin gas attacks in the tokyo subway in the 90s were considered to be possessed by fox spirits. yup, that's right, fox spirits in modern day japan.
interestingly, many of the koryu bujutsu have exorcisms against fox spirits in their curriculum.
BillyK
Anjing
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Devil City

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 21, 2008 6:39 am

Billy-

The fox spirits are closely linked to the shinto beliefs of japan. It's a cultural ingranation thing, like Bon to Buddhism in Tibet for instance.

In short, we can be whatever our minds have us believe we are.
Everything is illusory otherwise.

It is difficult to comprehend and hard to undrestand why people do the crazy things they do, but much can be attributed to self interest, laziness, greed, desire for attention, and so on. Barring acute psychological disorders.

BTW, as time progresses, I imagine the Catholics will continue to thin their criteria as actual understanding grows. Let's not forget that religion fundamentally is a superstitious belief based on nothing that is solid or evidential and is reliant on "faith". This is it's major drawback, because as we learn more and more about the world and universe around us, religion begins to look more and more ridiculous as time passes.

It does have value though. It instills community and common morality in groups of people which in turn sets the ground work for social behaviour and rule of law.
But the driving foundations are assumptive and quite silly in many ways.
anyway...
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7061
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Wed May 21, 2008 7:03 am

There was a show on exorcism in India on discovery or TLC once. The show had a young girl who began having serious problems. Her family was high in the caste system and was well off, many of the wealthy people in India are much more modern in their beliefs than most would think. They took her to the best doctors in India but nothing helped. After a couple years they were desperate and took their daughter to a small village to see a renowned exorcist. The documentary had the exorcism on video. After 3 sessions the girl was back to normal and happy and healthy. Her condition was confirmed to be gone by the medical doctors in India as well.

There are two ways you can view possession phenomena. Either 1) as Darth says it is a cultural phenomena that only happens in cultures that beleive it to happen, or 2) it is a universal phenomena that diffirent cultures developed different beliefs and ways of dealing with the phenomena. Exorcism rituals have many commonalities regardless of culture, possession lore has many commonalities regardless of culture. Have you ever thought that maybe many psychological disorders we have today are actually "possession" and we just have come up with ways of dealing with the phenomena based on our own culture and belief in the efficacy of drugs?

If you want to talk about safety there is nothing inherently unsafe about an exorcism. Starvation is not part of the ritual. Actually several resources recommend the opposite, an empty stomach makes you more susceptible to spiritual influences, which is why fasting has such a spiritual history attached to it. By keeping your belly full you are grounding yourself in the physical world which can help. Exorcisms have as far as I know very few deaths attributed to them. Whereas non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as aspirin have 7600 per year and adverse reactions to prescription drugs cause 32,000 per year, both numbers in only the US. Way I see it, if a procedure like an exorcism has a chance of curing me or a family member of any illness, I would give it a shot.

BTW, if you have ever experienced another "entity" attempting to get "inside you", there wouldn't be much doubt that the phenomena exists, what that actually is however is completely different.
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a

bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
User avatar
DeusTrismegistus
Wuji
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:55 am

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby BillyK on Wed May 21, 2008 7:13 am

@ Darth Rock'n'Roll
i dunno where that rant came from, i just wanted to show that even the often insulted catholic church doesn't just treat every psychosis as possession as most think. even the head excorcist says that only 1 or 2 percent of the cases he worked on were true possessions and the rest were just "normal" psychoses.

about the metaphysical things: well, i disagree, but since none of us can know for sure, we can argue till the cows come home, but it still would be like sex between virgins: awkward and ultimately unsatisfying. ;)

@ DeusTrismegistus

Exactly.
Last edited by BillyK on Wed May 21, 2008 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
BillyK
Anjing
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Devil City

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby meeks on Wed May 21, 2008 12:11 pm

but it still would be like sex between virgins: awkward and ultimately unsatisfying

only for the one of the partners...
"The power of Christ compels you!" *spank*
now with ADDED SMOOTHOSITY! ;D
User avatar
meeks
Administrator
 
Posts: 3627
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:27 pm
Location: Great Lakes, IL

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Andy_S on Wed May 21, 2008 6:46 pm

This is quite a famous case - not sure what the Catholic Church's official reaction was when their boys were slung in the slammer.

FYI, this did not happen in, say, the Philippines or even rural Italy - it took place in Germany, and one of the "spirits" the fraulein claimed to be possessed by was none other than Adolf himself (For once I''m not joking here - look it up. Pity that detail didn't make it into the movie: The idea of a goose stepping lunatic raving against the exorcising priests and threatening to send the panzers against the Vatican has very considerable comedic potential)

Ian:

I am surprised that this kind of thing does not happen in China - RU sure of your facts, there? To generalize: Chinese are a superstitious bunch and there are, indeed, exorcism rituals in the culture. If such practices HAVE been wiped out, I suppose one could credit the communist government for getting rid of at least one negative superstition.


Deus:

RE:
"BTW, if you have ever experienced another "entity" attempting to get "inside you", there wouldn't be much doubt that the phenomena exists"

Right. So in prisons, avoid showers!
Services available:
Pies scoffed. Ales quaffed. Beds shat. Oiks irked. Chavs chinned. Thugs thumped. Sacks split. Arses goosed. Udders ogled. Canines consumed. Sheep shagged.Matrons outraged. Vicars enlightened. PM for rates.
User avatar
Andy_S
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:16 pm

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Ian on Wed May 21, 2008 7:26 pm

Andy_S wrote:Ian:

I am surprised that this kind of thing does not happen in China - RU sure of your facts, there? To generalize: Chinese are a superstitious bunch and there are, indeed, exorcism rituals in the culture. If such practices HAVE been wiped out, I suppose one could credit the communist government for getting rid of at least one negative superstition.


Not entirely sure. Chinese people believe in ghosts and spirits, but I can't recall ever hearing about exorcisms in China. OTOH I've heard and seen (youtube) numerous accounts of 'possession' in the aforementioned countries.

I just think it's interesting to note that allegedly 'possessed' individuals such as Anneliese Michel never start ranting in Chinese or Finnish. They never become possessed by the spirit of the Raven or Coyote, Ismail Enver, Fumimaro Konoe, or Rafael Videla. They never make reference to the kingdom of Gangaridai, the Ottoman empire, Haiti, Zaire etc.

Sorry, the djinn in question couldn't locate these places on the map ::)

From Wikipedia:
Anneliese Michel's voice during exorcism rites allegedly claimed to be that of demons who possessed Judas Iscariot, Nero, Cain, and Adolf Hitler as well as Valentin Fleischmann, a disgraced Frankish Priest from the 16th century, and Lucifer itself.


Awfully fecking convenient, wouldn't you say?
Last edited by Ian on Wed May 21, 2008 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ian

 

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Chanchu on Wed May 21, 2008 9:40 pm

Chinese people do have such things many.. I have heard first hand accounts of them from serious people an example is the famous one related in the book "Monastary On Jade Mountain" by GOULLART, PETER

The exorcist was completely exhausted and had to be helped ...... The Monastery of Jade Mountain. London: John Murray. Horgan,

http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/connie/103952.shtml

Good anecdotal book about a White Russian who became a Taoist in pre 49 China
Last edited by Chanchu on Wed May 21, 2008 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Chanchu
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 9:09 pm

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby cerebus on Thu May 22, 2008 12:04 am

As regards Chinese possession and exorcism, also check out "Taoist Mysteries and Magic" by John Blofeld, and "The Book of Chinese Beliefs" by Frena Bloomfield. Lots of fascinating material on the subject...
User avatar
cerebus
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:54 am
Location: Ringsted, IA

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Ian on Thu May 22, 2008 12:53 am

Did the possessed Chinese speak in faraway languages e.g. German or Gaelic?

Did they rant about Judas and Hitler, or something more regional / topical?
Ian

 

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby cdobe on Thu May 22, 2008 2:26 am

Andy_S wrote:FYI, this did not happen in, say, the Philippines or even rural Italy - it took place in Germany, and one of the "spirits" the fraulein claimed to be possessed by was none other than Adolf himself (For once I''m not joking here - look it up. Pity that detail didn't make it into the movie: The idea of a goose stepping lunatic raving against the exorcising priests and threatening to send the panzers against the Vatican has very considerable comedic potential)


It's what she says in this clip. It starts at 1:13 and ends at 1:20 in the clip. She says :"[He] who who who who who deluded the whole Germany grrrrrh yes, yes, he is still inside".
cdobe
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2098
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:34 am

Re: Fatal Exorcism: Photos and Sound

Postby Andy_S on Thu May 22, 2008 3:25 am

SNIP
It's what she says in this clip. It starts at 1:13 and ends at 1:20 in the clip. She says :"[He] who who who who who deluded the whole Germany grrrrrh yes, yes, he is still inside".
SNIP

WHAT?!? Could this finally answer the mystery of what REALLY happened to Hitler? There have long been rumors that he escaped the Russian ring in Berlin in 45 and was living in S America, etc.

So....Adolf Hitler was swallowed by a mentally disturbed teenager?
Services available:
Pies scoffed. Ales quaffed. Beds shat. Oiks irked. Chavs chinned. Thugs thumped. Sacks split. Arses goosed. Udders ogled. Canines consumed. Sheep shagged.Matrons outraged. Vicars enlightened. PM for rates.
User avatar
Andy_S
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7568
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:16 pm

Next

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests