North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Thu May 24, 2018 3:21 pm

US implies nuclear threat for years during mlitary "drills", Kim makes his explicit, Trump one-ups him: Trump FTW. Kim will suck it up, and soon.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Thu May 24, 2018 8:20 pm

And within a day, it's back on...according to this.

North Korea’s vice foreign minister Kim Kye Gwan said the North is open to resolving issues with the United States whenever and however after U.S. President Donald Trump called off a June summit with its leader, Kim Jong Un.


I think Xi Jinping told Kim he's gotta do it. Pronto. Done deal and Trump knows it. Could make Kim kowtow if he wanted.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Thu May 24, 2018 8:37 pm

Michael wrote:And within a day, it's back on...according to this.

North Korea’s vice foreign minister Kim Kye Gwan said the North is open to resolving issues with the United States whenever and however after U.S. President Donald Trump called off a June summit with its leader, Kim Jong Un.


I think Xi Jinping told Kim he's gotta do it. Pronto. Done deal and Trump knows it. Could make Kim kowtow if he wanted.


Whatever was said or did Iets hope it works out.

"We had set in high regards President Trump’s efforts, unprecedented by any other president, to create a historic North Korea-U.S. summit,” said the vice foreign minister in a statement released on Friday by the North’s central news agency.

“We tell the United States once more that we are open to resolving problems at any time in any way,” he said."
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Thu May 24, 2018 9:05 pm

This bunk is why I rarely believe in war.

War happens because our "leaders" suck and fear losing face. They would rather see us die than compromise.

President Propecea is nothing more than a spoiled rich kid and a quitter.

Should be obvious to anyone that he is trying to provoke a war to win re-election.

Have Republicans ever met a war they didn't like?
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu May 24, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 24, 2018 9:40 pm

Yes, these comments about Trump's fourth-grade letter being good and an action from a place of power are ridiculous.

The idea that we are flirting with war with North Korea is equally asinine. Think we'll win? We couldn't win in Nam or Afganistan, what makes anyone think we can defeat a much stronger enemy who has much stronger allies and has literally been preparing for this since the 50s?

Best thing that can and likely will happen is that the two Koreas will continue to negotiate without America and make a deal. Trump will come late to the table and claim credit just like two weeks ago. Trump seems to be removing the US from the world stage and that's not a bad thing.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Thu May 24, 2018 10:05 pm

Michael wrote:More hardcore tweeting, brah! What else? Since that's about the level of our amazing political representatives these days.


Exactly!
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Thu May 24, 2018 10:24 pm

Well, Kim called off a meeting with Moon last week. Then, he called Pence a political dummy for threatening a "Libyan solution." Of course, Kim recognized that the Libyan model is what happened to Qadafi. Some might argue that Trump was just pre-empting Kim. However, by Kim saying that the North is still ready to meet the US, the ball is actually in Trump's court.

There's never been a question about the power differential. Previous administrations have not invaded or bombed NK because they did not want a war there, not because they couldn't win. The war would not be just with NK, but with its allies. The question used to be: who would support an irrational "rocket man." Any unprovoked attack by the US would be condemned by most countries and only gain support for Kim.

I.e., Kim has to do something provocative and stupid --but he's actually been playing nicey nicey. For ex., he's (allegedly, but publicly) destroyed some nuclear test sites. He's returned three prisoners. What has the other side given up in the "deal." Kim asked that the scheduled US/Korea joint military exercises be cancelled. He called them provocative. Hey, he has to save face too; he does have a "base," though it is coerced.

Anyway, I'm sure that whichever way it goes, both "bases" will consider it the result of a deep dark plan that no one else could have accomplished. It's like the ZTE deal (with the Chinese state-owned company that received sanctions); it's pay for play. Just follow the money.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 pm

As I don't see a return to the Total War approach to international intervention, I don't agree that the US would win a war with North Korea. We tried before, remember? We laid waste to the entire peninsula--especially so in the north--but still got pushed back by China. As for the reasons you cite for not going to war previously, some might call that a distinction without a difference. I'd just call it bullshit. It's a hard target, and only a fool would go to war with North Korea. Of course, we have one of those behind the button right now, so I'm not making prognostications over whether or not we are going to war or not, just that it would be a bad idea and it's time for Americans to stop assuming they are just going to walk through any enemy they march on.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Fri May 25, 2018 1:40 pm

It's like the ZTE deal (with the Chinese state-owned company that received sanctions); it's pay for play. Just follow the money.

I like to think that Trump countermanding the Just. Dept. on ZTE, as well as pulling back on other trade sanctions, is partly due to China's cooperation on NK. Considering how Chinese companies do business, being strict on ZTE, which would have put them out of business, was correct, but I'd give that up if it keeps the USA/China/Koreas/Japan/Taiwan from military conflict. However, when you look at the militarization of the South China Seas by China, Trump appeasement for NK is not a small price to pay.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri May 25, 2018 4:22 pm

Rewatching Bolton and Pence purposefully sabotaging the potential for even a meeting by bringing up "Libyan Model" is pretty frustrating. I really wonder what Trump thinks about it. I actually believe that he would like to negotiate a successful deal here. Does he recognize the undercutting going on? Is he getting ready for another firing?

The South Koreans are equally perplexed at the meeting being called off. Also, why do we still not even have an Ambassador in Korea?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Fri May 25, 2018 6:02 pm

However, when you look at the militarization of the South China Seas by China, Trump appeasement for NK is not a small price to pay.


We've heard nothing about China giving up building islands or giving up the ones they've built. It's fine to talk about demilitarization, but China is not demilitarizing and will remain the "super power" in the region. Of course, Japan is also militarizing to some extent.

If you mean that Trump makes a deal with China in order to get them to maintain pressure on NK, that could be true. But, as I've said, there's very little discussion of what Trump is giving up for a deal.

As I don't see a return to the Total War approach to international intervention, I don't agree that the US would win a war with North Korea.


I agree that the idea of "total war" was generally unacceptable; but, these are not ordinary times. No one knows whether Trump's threats/tweets are serious. I don't think that NK ever had any intention of militarily attacking anything American --because it would give the US an excuse to intervene militarily. I don't think China would ever support US military action on China's border.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Sat May 26, 2018 6:29 am

I believe the issue with the ambassador is Trump's inability to get people approved by the senate.

We've heard nothing about China giving up building islands or giving up the ones they've built. It's fine to talk about demilitarization, but China is not demilitarizing and will remain the "super power" in the region. Of course, Japan is also militarizing to some extent.

If you mean that Trump makes a deal with China in order to get them to maintain pressure on NK, that could be true. But, as I've said, there's very little discussion of what Trump is giving up for a deal.

There is no chance in hell that China will demilitarize as long as the US has such as massive military presence all around the Pacific rim. This is just my layman's speculation, but the US advantage is in technology, such as anti-missile capability like Aegis and THAAD. I'm thinking that the US increasing these capabilities in South Korea and Japan is such a massive disadvantage for China that Xi is willing to force Kim to denuclearize for this one issue, and Trump has gone along with that, believing NK is the biggest threat, meaning Trump has not negotiated for China's illegal South China Seas islands, or if he has and he believes anything he was told, he is wrong: they will *never* give this up now that they've got it.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Sat May 26, 2018 6:52 am

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sat May 26, 2018 5:25 pm

Well, would you look at that:

Mr Moon, who brokered the summit between Washington and Pyongyang, likely used Saturday's meeting to confirm Mr Kim's willingness to enter nuclear negotiations with Mr Trump and clarify what steps Mr Kim has in mind in the process of denuclearisation, said Hong Min, a senior analyst at Seoul's Korea Institute for National Unification.
Moon and Kim talk at a table in the demilitarised zone
Photo: Mr Moon and Mr Kim speak at a footbridge at the border village of Panmunjom. (AP: Korea Summit Press Pool)

"While Washington and Pyongyang have expressed their hopes for a summit through published statements, Mr Moon has to step up as the mediator because the surest way to set the meeting in stone would be an official confirmation of intent between heads of states," Mr Hong said.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-26/k ... it/9804024
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Sun May 27, 2018 12:09 pm

"Thank God we didn't go to war with North Korea."

Watch "Joe Rogan - Why The Military Can't Find Any Recruitments" on YouTube

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