North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:11 am

grzegorz wrote:Image
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby aamc on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:07 pm

I'm going to de-rail this thread slightly. I've been wrestling with the following comments.

What was the point of this meeting, really?

Trump and Kim turn up, Kim signs a flimsy document saying something about removing nuclear weapons in the region. Nothing concrete, something suitable flimsy. Trump says the war games will stop. Which as a side note, I don't believe a bit.

So in summary:
Flimsy document with next to no substance.
Concession to North Korea demands, in word only.

So why did this summit even take place? What a waste of money for the US. Sending the President, in Airforce one, along with the supporting aircraft, staff and resources. For a meeting that didn't deliver anything except a possible concession.

This is just pure theatre, Trump the nuclear brinksman, rushing off to save the world. Hell he even abandoned the hard stuff at the G7 summit. Kim as well, he returns the champion, bringing the US to the table. The peace maker, the champion of NK, see how nuclear weapons brings the US to the table.

Just nonsense... Spectacle and no substance.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:21 pm

aamc wrote:I'm going to de-rail this thread slightly. I've been wrestling with the following comments.

What was the point of this meeting, really?

Trump and Kim turn up, Kim signs a flimsy document saying something about removing nuclear weapons in the region. Nothing concrete, something suitable flimsy. Trump says the war games will stop. Which as a side note, I don't believe a bit.

So in summary:
Flimsy document with next to no substance.
Concession to North Korea demands, in word only.

So why did this summit even take place? What a waste of money for the US. Sending the President, in Airforce one, along with the supporting aircraft, staff and resources. For a meeting that didn't deliver anything except a possible concession. you right war would have been better, no more talking ::)

This is just pure theatre, Trump the nuclear brinksman, rushing off to save the world. Hell he even abandoned the hard stuff at the G7 summit. Kim as well, he returns the champion, bringing the US to the table. The peace maker, the champion of NK, see how nuclear weapons brings the US to the table.
Yep once they accomplished the objective of being able to reach the US with an ICBM just ignore it, this seems to have worked well in the last 8 yrs.

Just nonsense... Spectacle and no substance.


totally agree, can you post what your suggestions would be.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:21 pm

This is just pure theatre


Exactly. "Bread and circuses." But don't say it out loud for risk of being called "just against Trump."

I do find it typical that 45 comes back and says that "North Korea is not a threat" and that we don't have to have war games with the South. Oh, it's not that I disagree with him. I do. I just think it's typical that two months ago NK was a credible threat and places like Guam were being put on alert.

Stuff changes really fast. This week we (i.e. the US) has had more conflicts with our traditional allies --including Canada ffs-- than we have had with our traditional enemies. Read and compare, for example, what 45 has said about Trudeau as opposed to Kim. I would smh, but it might break my neck. (But, I'd love to hear what Kim says now about Trump).
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:26 pm

Kim says, "Xi told me the fix was in and Trump was a fiddle begging to be played, but I just couldn't believe it. He said some old guy named Kissoff or Kissinger told him it would work out this way and damn it if that old commie princeling wasn't telling the truth. Gonna send him a case of Lafete."
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:49 pm

C'est Lafite.

Sorry, the word commie isn't pc anymore, especially when talking about N. Korea. But, ya never know, if 45 enters any deal with Iran, he'll salute its leader and its version of Islam. Hey, he was very happy with the Saudis.

I have to say that making friends with everybody is great. Otoh, I find it perverse that we are removing tariffs from NK and imposing them on Canada, Mexico and Europe. Ok, 45 still hasn't signed the Russian sanctions yet. I know that it's part of a deep plan.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby aamc on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:16 pm

All fair points:

"your right war would have been better, no more talking"

Oh and where did that come from? Being your own hype man on twitter.

As for talking... Can you show me the plan for what happens next? What are steps are NK/SK and US going to carry out? What mechanisms are there going to be show each side is keeping to their side of the bargain. Which department is tasked with this? Can some show me the details...

"Yep once they accomplished the objective of being able to reach the US with an ICBM just ignore it, this seems to have worked well in the last 8 yrs."

Well it seems that for the last 30 years, North Korea has been talking promising that it would not develop nuclear weapons and then did it anyway:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/09/asia ... index.html

My understanding is that NK were always going to develop nuclear, they've got a standing army of 3M soldiers, that's a vast drain on the countries bank balance. Nuclear weapons mitigates any invasion. So it allows you to reduce your army forces and get those people back into work. Now, well they've got their end goal, no one is going to invade and they can then start fixing their economy. If I knew this strategy I'm sure everyone in the region knew this. So my guess is that there were no good options and this.. Well, circuses..
Last edited by aamc on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:54 pm

aamc wrote:All fair points:

"your right war would have been better, no more talking"

Oh and where did that come from? Being your own hype man on twitter.

As for talking... Can you show me the plan for what happens next? What are steps are NK/SK and US going to carry out? What mechanisms are there going to be show each side is keeping to their side of the bargain. Which department is tasked with this? Can some show me the details...

this aspect has already been outlined

"Yep once they accomplished the objective of being able to reach the US with an ICBM just ignore it, this seems to have worked well in the last 8 yrs."

Well it seems that for the last 30 years, North Korea has been talking promising that it would not develop nuclear weapons and then did it anyway:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/09/asia ... index.html

quite correct because of no credible consequence that would have stopped them until now

My understanding is that NK were always going to develop nuclear, they've got a standing army of 3M soldiers, that's a vast drain on the countries bank balance. Nuclear weapons mitigates any invasion. So it allows you to reduce your army forces and get those people back into work. Now, well they've got their end goal, no one is going to invade and they can then start fixing their economy. If I knew this strategy I'm sure everyone in the region knew this. So my guess is that there were no good options and this.. Well, circuses..


That option is being exercised now.
As of yet to be played out, it remains to be seen what happens.

lets hope good things do...
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 pm

The pageantry and spectacle surrounding the first meeting between a U.S. president and a leader of North Korea’s autocratic regime also obscured the fact that the North Koreans agreed to little in the way of specific or tangible concessions. Although Kim said he was committed to the “complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” the joint statement between the two leaders included no timetable for when or how North Korea would reveal, destroy and allow verification of its nuclear arsenal.

Harry Kazianis, the director of defense studies at the Center for the National Interest, described the Singapore extravaganza as “21st-century diplomacy” with a Trumpian twist.


Everyone would just like to know what exactly the N. Koreans gave up in a little more detail. Nobody's saying that they won't denuclearize, eventually. It'd be nice to know when. One reason is just curiosity. The other is that, if we don't know when, then there's no consequence if they delay for decades. There's also no reason can't use its "what if you don't" clause in the agreement --if there is one. I.e., if Kim doesn't get rid of all his nukes in a month, what did he agree that we could do?

It also means that we'd need some sort of verification, which would also have to have a timeline. Now, I know. It's fine to say that these details are being worked on in the background. The point is that the fact they haven't been agreed upon in writing in the document illustrates that the event in Singapore was a show. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean that all the administrations of the past were wrong.

And, I still think it's paradoxical that people argue that the reason Kim (did what again?) is because of Trump's threats, but then recommend him for a peace prize. Imo, it's one or the other. If Kim is succumbing to the threat of a superpower, then it's just extortion. The only thing that can be said for that is that it's better than an invasion or overt military action, such as in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Otoh, I think that giving up the war games is a peaceful move. However, that's the removal of a threat, not a threat. Hey, we can't know what Kim will do. It's unlikely, and it'd be surprising, if he launched any sort of attack. Whether they stop counterfeiting US currency or hacking is another question, but they're no more dishonest than Americans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyX5VWzeKPM
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:45 pm

aamc wrote:I'm going to de-rail this thread slightly. I've been wrestling with the following comments.

What was the point of this meeting, really?

Trump and Kim turn up, Kim signs a flimsy document saying something about removing nuclear weapons in the region. Nothing concrete, something suitable flimsy. Trump says the war games will stop. Which as a side note, I don't believe a bit.

So in summary:
Flimsy document with next to no substance.
Concession to North Korea demands, in word only.

So why did this summit even take place? What a waste of money for the US. Sending the President, in Airforce one, along with the supporting aircraft, staff and resources. For a meeting that didn't deliver anything except a possible concession.

This is just pure theatre, Trump the nuclear brinksman, rushing off to save the world. Hell he even abandoned the hard stuff at the G7 summit. Kim as well, he returns the champion, bringing the US to the table. The peace maker, the champion of NK, see how nuclear weapons brings the US to the table.

Just nonsense... Spectacle and no substance.


I agree but saying that I applaud President Propecea's efforts.

For me, this whole thing is proof that most war is bullshit.

When all it takes is for two assholes to sit down and agree on a few things by giving each other big face instead of sending the working class's youth to war it speaks volumes to how unnecessary war usually is.

To top it off the Iran Nuclear deal was much better and essentially the same thing, a way to avoid nuclear war but of course President Propecea's was not able to see what he had right in front of him.

President Propecea's new reality show...
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:09 pm

You think Trump brought up Otto?

Image

We all got played...but some actually voted for this...
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:29 pm

Didn't you say here a few months ago that Otto was a thief who got what he deserved?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:00 pm

Otto was a thief. He just gave the Norks a chance to screw over an American, although he didn't deserve a death sentence. Of course, a North Korean might have been treated worse.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby klonk on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:31 pm

When all it takes is for two assholes to sit down and agree on a few things by giving each other big face instead of sending the working class's youth to war it speaks volumes to how unnecessary war usually is.


Ordinarily the best solution. If what the other wants is world domination, the world may have something or other to say about it. Do not mistake your inherent large reservoir of goodwill for the heart of your opponent. But in this case Kim is sufficiently weak that big face is a win.

I speculate that he ( and his father before him) were sock puppets for interests within Red China, but now that the east is not quite so red, the winter of the hardliner is over and gone; the dove is heard in the land.

THE FOLLOWING PHOTO IS MERELY A REMINDER THAT TWO ASSHOLES SITTING DOWN IS NOT ALWAYS THE ANSWER: Chamberlain waving Hitler's promise of peace and reconciliation.

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Trick on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:28 pm

The 5th Floor : ”The fifth floor is off limits to hotel guests.[1] The elevators do not stop on the fifth floor; hence, there is no fifth-floor button on the elevator panel.[10] The fifth floor has occasionally been visited 'unofficially' by tourists exploring the hotel. It is reported to be further split into two separate floors, with mostly locked rooms, and is decorated with propaganda posters.[11] Tourists have also reported seeing surveillence equipment used to spy on individual rooms. [12]” Why would a ”tourist” want to enter there? Death, a high prize to pay just to do something ”cool”? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanggakdo ... onal_Hotel
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