North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:27 pm

I have no problem with the agreement, but we know that the US and NK leaders are liars and will breach agreements on a whim. I'm much happier with the agreement between the Koreas; that's the only really important development.

What about de-nuclearization? None of us know exactly what it means? Does it mean the Kim is willing to give up all his nuclear weapons? Or, does it mean that he will destroy all his nuclear weapons? Do we know how many he has? Well, all he needs is one. All he really has to agree to is inspections. Let's see.

However, the good thing is that Kim is negotiating, which is smart on his part. There has got to be some carrot at the end of the stick. And that will inevitably be good for Kim.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby .Q. on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Michael wrote:Before the West started trading with China, North Korea was richer and NK people on the border gave food to starving Chinese, or sold black market goods to them.

What time period was this? Is that around Cultural Revolution? I'm not familiar with that part of history but my impression was that China pretty much always had more resources than Korea.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:55 pm

.Q. wrote:
Michael wrote:Before the West started trading with China, North Korea was richer and NK people on the border gave food to starving Chinese, or sold black market goods to them.

What time period was this? Is that around Cultural Revolution? I'm not familiar with that part of history but my impression was that China pretty much always had more resources than Korea.

Some expat vloggers in China were discussing it here. They were talking about the 80's when the USSR supported NK and before the sanctions.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE6KipuuYJc
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:07 pm

@Peacedog

Does US foreign policy favor elected governments over unelected governments?

I don't know about USSR integrity on arms agreements, but how about the Russian Federation? Why didn't they want the US to pull out of the ABM treaty?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:57 pm

"History is always evolving, the past don't have to be the future"

"what if"




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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:30 pm

Michael wrote:
Before the West started trading with China, North Korea was richer and NK people on the border gave food to starving Chinese, or sold black market goods to them
.
i don't know what date in history west started to do business with China.And maybe NK was "richer" at some point in the recent history. And I don't know how many or if there where any Chinese "refugees" fleeing to NK because of poverty and maybe other misfortunes, but I do know there is a huge Korean population up there in northeast of China, I guess there always been but I also guess some/many of them also came there during the Korean War......but I'm just guessing
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Trick, check out that 20 minute video I posted for some basic info. It's basically a travelogue, but has some insight.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:52 pm

Michael wrote:
.Q. wrote:
Michael wrote:Before the West started trading with China, North Korea was richer and NK people on the border gave food to starving Chinese, or sold black market goods to them.

What time period was this? Is that around Cultural Revolution? I'm not familiar with that part of history but my impression was that China pretty much always had more resources than Korea.

Some expat vloggers in China were discussing it here. They were talking about the 80's when the USSR supported NK and before the sanctions.

Ha ha yeah, NK selling black market USSR goods to Chinese 8-) Was in Moscow in 88, they had just got Pepsi-Cola introduced there, you got it tapped in to a glass cup that you had to give back to the vendor after emptying it. While on the train from there to Beijing the conductor had a small stack of bottled Pepsi hidden under his bunk that he sold, black market style 8-) while on one of my strolls in the Soviet capital I was offered to to sell my Levi's and Seabago shoes but the prize offered was too low and I needed my pants and shoes........Actually I don't think there could have been too much black market business from the NK to China, but maybe Korean(SK) items of some sort to the Chinese Korean population..that could be.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:56 pm

Peacedog wrote:
My issue with NK negotiations is that any US government activity should be centered on actions that collapse that odious regime. Anything that extends it's lifespan, I'm not in favor of.

Hope Trump's "business" style works better than the Obama/Clinton & Bush take out Saddam and Gaddafi style
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:16 pm

Peacedog wrote:Michael,

Unelected governments in general have a bad track record with this.

The Soviets violated every arms agreement they ever made.

My issue with NK negotiations is that any US government activity should be centered on actions that collapse that odious regime. Anything that extends it's lifespan, I'm not in favor of.


Ya that works out really well right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIRYvJQeHM


It all good until some one feels that your gov or regime is odious,,,oh wait many already do :P
They just lack the means :-\
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:30 am

Full text of Trump-Kim signed statement wrote:Joint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new US-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
Convinced that the establishment of new US-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

  • The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
  • The United States and DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
  • Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
  • The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the US-DPRK summit -- the first in history -- was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in the joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the US-DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new US-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and the security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.

DONALD J. TRUMP
President of the United States of America

KIM JONG UN
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

June 12, 2018
Sentosa Island
Singapore
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 am

Who will appear in White House first, Kim or Rodman?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:42 am

Rodman: Give peace a chance.

Obama: Can't hear you above the sound of my golf swing.

Trump: Hold my beer.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1006761371982155776
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:00 am

Michael,

The Russians were upset about the ABM treaty due to its impact on their arms sales buisness. Turns out they make a lot of money selling ballistic missile systems and technology to third tier countries. Now these countries can't generally afford to buy either the best available technology or many of these systems. So, if someone came up with affordable and effective anti-ballistic missile systems then most of these countries wouldn't bother to buy from the Russians.

And as far as I know the Soviets were violating the ABM treaty as well. I would assume the Russians continue this behavior regarding the various arms control agreements, but I've been out of the loop on this kind of thing for awhile.

International agreements favor elected regimes as they are more likely to uphold them. And when they violate them they do so in a less egregious manner. The current European BS about demanding free trade, while supporting their own industries internally via subsidies is a good example.

As a practical matter, the US government prefers to work with elected governments, but as a trading superpower we deal with whoever is in charge. It's a subtlety that is lost on a lot of people, particularly those with a political axe to grind.
Last edited by Peacedog on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:09 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:17 am

Makes sense, it just wrankles me when someone from the War Machine of Lies, like Clapper, pretends we don't do business with so-called despots.
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