the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Foreign investments, foreign companies allowed to move their production to NK, for them a couple of golden decades with cheap labour will most probably also turn out to be golden for NK as a whole(just look at the rapid development of China)....Maybe US(and SK) has been promised a head start and in turn Kim can continue to be the leader for life......not sure what China will think about such a scenario.

Makes sense to me. Xi is there for life, Putin is there for life, so why not Kim?

Kim's timing is perfect and he knows Trumps needs this, not for his base but for those of us who oppose him.

Then again Republicans can get away with anything in this country...

An unstated factor in all this is the ongoing, grinding poverty of North Korea, which will not be brought up in these negotiations. If Kim increases face by joining the rest of the world, and as an implicit side effect, there is more rice and cabbage to go around, I will not begrudge Kim the added face. It might also occur to you to let Trump have some. Face, I mean. He looks like he gets enough rice.

The baseline truth is participation in free markets is where money comes from, any controlled economy becomes in time another word for no rice, and the process of realization needs sometimes to be sprayed over with the perfume of kindly words.

Follow the money.

I have zero clue how anyone could claim that North Korea's poverty has not been brought up as sanctions are central to the negotiations.

North Korea was long in better shape than the South and made a far more rapid recovery after the Korean War. The collapse of trade after 1989 and sanctions were the main causes of the grinding poverty, despite what capitalist ideologues like to claim.

Honestly ask yourselves, why is North Korea so poor? It's not why some of you seem to assume.

klonk wrote:An unstated factor in all this is the ongoing, grinding poverty of North Korea, which will not be brought up in these negotiations. If Kim increases face by joining the rest of the world, and as an implicit side effect, there is more rice and cabbage to go around, I will not begrudge Kim the added face. It might also occur to you to let Trump have some. Face, I mean. He looks like he gets enough rice.

The baseline truth is participation in free markets is where money comes from, any controlled economy becomes in time another word for no rice, and the process of realization needs sometimes to be sprayed over with the perfume of kindly words.

Follow the money.

I believe this is why the South Koreans are giving Trump Big Face and I agree that if waving the flag and saying Trump saved the world would help then I am all for it.

If Trump does work this whole thing out then I will give him credit that he is due but all the credit since in the end the Koreans could have done or do all this on their own.

I believe Kim chose this moment wisely. Being that Trump never criticizes Xi, Putin and Duterte, I believe Kim thinks he can join that club.

Personally I never believed pubically shaming anyone ever worked. When dealing with difficult heads of governments it seems Trump believes that too, either that or he hopes to do business with the world's most powerful when he is out of office. Then again saying nothing can be seen as a sign of approval

Just now, Kim is accusing the US of provoking North Korea.

Just a reminder that we are not out of the woods yet.

If Trump doesn't deliver will his base blame him?

grzegorz wrote:Just now, Kim is accusing the US of provoking North Korea.

Just a reminder that we are not out of the woods yet.

If Trump doesn't deliver will his base blame him?

Yes it's a tiresome game isn't it. Just read the headlines, before I accuse the media of just throwing their usually provoking stuff around I should probably read up on it

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I have zero clue how anyone could claim that North Korea's poverty has not been brought up as sanctions are central to the negotiations.

North Korea was long in better shape than the South and made a far more rapid recovery after the Korean War. Not mentioned they where bombed pretty badly during the war

""Every installation, facility, and village in North Korea now becomes a military and tactical target." Stratemeyer sent orders to the Fifth Air Force and Bomber Command to "destroy every means of communications and every installation, factory, city, and village."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_o ... _1950-1953

The collapse of trade after 1989 and sanctions were the main causes of the grinding poverty, despite what capitalist ideologues like to claim.

Honestly ask yourselves, why is North Korea so poor? It's not why some of you seem to assume.

The war was brutal for both sides, with the south being helped to recover from it. Something not allowed in the north.

There is a word they use to express some of feeling of this " han"

Han (한), a Korean Cultural Trait

Han–a Korean feeling of sorrow, oppression, unavenged injustice, and isolation–is hard to truly explain. There really isn’t an American equivalent; and given the difference in our countries histories that’s not really surprising. But han is something just about every Korean knows and understands."

My n-mantis teacher was from the north.

"During the Korean war he along with most other young men from his home town were recruited to fight for the south as guerilla fighters not actually associated with the formal army. After the war he was able to relocate to the south and has not seen his family since then.
Shifu Park Chil Sung worked for some time after the war for the South Korean equivalent of the American CIA, training in hand to hand combat."
http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/parkchil.htm

Lots of families had very recent memories from the war....on both sides...

its time for them

windwalker wrote:

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I have zero clue how anyone could claim that North Korea's poverty has not been brought up as sanctions are central to the negotiations.

North Korea was long in better shape than the South and made a far more rapid recovery after the Korean War. Not mentioned they where bombed pretty badly during the war

""Every installation, facility, and village in North Korea now becomes a military and tactical target." Stratemeyer sent orders to the Fifth Air Force and Bomber Command to "destroy every means of communications and every installation, factory, city, and village."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_o ... _1950-1953

The collapse of trade after 1989 and sanctions were the main causes of the grinding poverty, despite what capitalist ideologues like to claim.

Honestly ask yourselves, why is North Korea so poor? It's not why some of you seem to assume.

The war was brutal for both sides, with the south being helped to recover from it. Something not allowed in the north.

There is a word they use to express some of feeling of this " han"

Han (한), a Korean Cultural Trait

Han–a Korean feeling of sorrow, oppression, unavenged injustice, and isolation–is hard to truly explain. There really isn’t an American equivalent; and given the difference in our countries histories that’s not really surprising. But han is something just about every Korean knows and understands."

My n-mantis teacher was from the north.

"During the Korean war he along with most other young men from his home town were recruited to fight for the south as guerilla fighters not actually associated with the formal army. After the war he was able to relocate to the south and has not seen his family since then.
Shifu Park Chil Sung worked for some time after the war for the South Korean equivalent of the American CIA, training in hand to hand combat."
http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/parkchil.htm

Lots of families had very recent memories from the war....on both sides...

its time for them

Good post.

Yes, most of my close Korean friends are from the south, as I met them back in the States. But, lots of former Northern Koreans here in the Kanto and elsewhere. We have two Korean schools in my city, one for Northerners and one for Southerners. Pretty interesting to chat with them after letting the soju flow a bit.

I'm cautiously hopeful for continued movement towards reconciliation. I was reading some of the specific things said by Kim to Moon and other delegates. Apparently, Kim Jong-un openly admitted to failures of his state, such as recommending to Moon that it would be better to fly to Pyongyang as the roads were so horrible. I feel that admitting things such as this even six months ago would never have happened.

Trick wrote:

grzegorz wrote:Just now, Kim is accusing the US of provoking North Korea.

Just a reminder that we are not out of the woods yet.

If Trump doesn't deliver will his base blame him?

Yes it's a tiresome game isn't it. Just read the headlines, before I accuse the media of just throwing their usually provoking stuff around I should probably read up on it

You mean accuse the media of doing their job? I don't do that. Why would you? Because you don't like reality? I suppose one could always bury their head in the sand.

The US sells and supplies South Korea with weapons and Kim called us out on our BS.

Like I always say, the Koreas would be better off without us regarding this whole peace deal.

Remember when Trump wanted money upfront from South Korea for defense from the North? We are all being played and it is all for military industrial complex.

Might do one of these rather dip my head in the sand https://m.wikihow.com/Make-a-Newspaper-Hat

The fact is anger solves nothing and although people may not like what the powers do the powers don't care.

Love Trump or hate Trump these emotions themselves do nothing.

Trump is not a man of peace. Trump is nothing more than a spoiled rich kid willing to said anything to get the job.

More than likely he will pull the US out of the Iran deal because of his grudge against Obama.

The irony is W did the same to North Korea and guess what happened.

North Korea went on to develop a nuclear weapon.

More than likely he will pull the US out of the Iran deal because of his grudge against Obama.

Well, I won't be Trumped and wait to find out what the Donald decides to do. It's a waste of time, and a distraction. Even if he says something today, he will change his mind. (It's called being flexible, when he does it).

But, c'mon, if he does pull out, who thinks anyone will take any treaty that the US has signed seriously. I don't mean even mean with North Korea. I mean anyone who now or in the future decides to make an agreement or treaty with the U.S. I know. I know. For some, that's a good thing. They're the same ones who don't mind that Trump cheats at golf, on his wife, and throws his "friends" (i.e., the people he's called great) under the bus. It's what they call character.

Sure enough he did it.

One thing for sure, Trump really knows how to hold a grudge.

Peace prize...

The Iran-deal was probably BS even already when it popped up as a though since it lacked one important player-Israel. A true Iran-deal can only come into play when we see Iran and Israel "sitting in a tree"