Physicians vs. UPS

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Physicians vs. UPS

Postby grzegorz on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:49 am

Watch "Are Doctors Rich? $$$ Physicians vs. UPS Drivers" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/2503XQU1feE
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:20 pm

What a strange way to present the numbers. For example, how many UPS drivers do (or even can) work 80 hours a week? Doctors also by and large come from wealthy backgrounds and therefore are much less likely to incur high levels of debt, especially in undergrad. I know a lot of doctors and they all do pretty well for themselves and also enjoy other benefits associated (rightfully or not) with a high prestige career.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:40 pm

I'm not really sure what the video was trying to say.

As a reality, median income for a family in the US is about $66,000. Family practice MDs, the lowest paid of the bunch, make over three times that. And specialist pay was not adequately discussed as huge differences exist between the different types of specialists. Dermatologists come in around $250,000 and neurosurgeons can be as high as $550-700,000 depending upon whose numbers you use.

For someone who is working for someone else that is about as good as it gets. Now if you are an entrepeneur that is another story entirely. Roughly 2% of American households make $250,000 a year or more. Approximately .7% of tax returns in 2013 indicated an income of $500,000 or more. In the same year .3% reported incomes of $1,000,000 or more. And over 90% of those were self-employed.

Doctors do as well as employees are typically capable of. Part of this is certainly longer working hours than most people perform and a big part of it is a rigorous weed-out process that takes about a decade.

Again, I'm not sure what point the author of the video was trying to make. Doctors are certainly in the top 1% of earners as individuals and pretty damn close to it as a family income in the US and are effectively rich by all practical standards. The fact that it is hard to do as compared to getting a job at UPS is meaningless.
Last edited by Peacedog on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby grzegorz on Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:58 pm

Yes, dude does leave out a lot and makes it seem as if anyone can be or do what a UPs driver does. Actually it can years to be a full time UPS driver and it takes 5 years to make that rate.

I thought it was interesting in showing what a good union job can provide. In this day and age everyone seems focussed on college as the key to success but there are other jobs out there available to more people which a lot of young people both college bound and not don't consider.

Otis elevator repair men and PG&E workers makes over $50 an hour!
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Steve James on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:20 pm

Any of the construction trades, even laborers, get paid fairly well. If earning money is the goal, there are lots of blue collar and service jobs available. That's not even counting jobs like x-ray tech, dental assistant, and the like. But those usually require some college or technical school. College is not necessary if making money is the goal.

Otoh, the manual trades aren't easy, and are absolute hell if you don't like what you're doing. If you like the smell of burning metal, being a welder is great. If you don't like the sight of blood, being a surgeon isn't the right job for you. In general --and specifically too-- it's best to study the subject that you're interested in. Of course, do what you have to do until you can do what you want. If you end up doing what you like, you won't have to work.

Otooh, there's also a virtue in having a job that pays the bills and starts and ends at a specific time five days a week.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby grzegorz on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:06 am

True also his numbers are based more calculations than research. Although he did well most UPS drivers in my area make two grand a week or can if they are willing to work the hours, of course a lot of times they don't have a choice due to the demand from Amazon which only seems to increase every year despite them using contractors to deliver their products. Also he leaves out pensions, healthcare and other benefits but he does the same with doctors too so I suppose it evens out.

If you hate the job it is rough but if you like it and have a family (in which case going back to school might not be an option) union jobs can provide.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Peacedog on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:15 pm

I routinely recommend the trades to friend's kids these days. College can be a complete waste of time financially outside a few very difficult careers (petroleum engineer, doctor, accountant, etc.).

The main point I make when having that discussion is that if you want to be well compensated as an employee expect it to require real effort over a long period of time.

FYI, instrumentation electricians, the guys who crawl thru conduit and calibrate gauges, can make upwards of $120/hr in a big city like NY. The tech school is a bitch though and I think something like 50% fail it on the first try.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby grzegorz on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:25 pm

True, these are no nonsense jobs and if someone isn't cutting it they will push you out onto the streets
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:06 pm

I agree that trade jobs can be good. Good pay, honest work, and clearly make one a productive member of society.

I would still not be inclined to recommend them in place of going to college, though. I don't see them as interchangeable or serving the same purpose at all. Peacedog, you are maybe/sort of right about the money (although that is also debatable), but I don't see money as being the primary reason for going to college. An educated citizenry is a good thing, IMO. A quality education including critical thinking and reasoning, knowledge of history and other places, and the socialization that takes place are all lifelong attributes that should be treasured. I would encourage jr. college and a public university as a way to avoid massive financial strain--until we can figure out how to make college once again affordable by getting it off the neoliberal/consumer track.

I think our tradesmen/women should have the opportunity to attend college, too.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Michael on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:12 am

Yeah, that critical theory analysis is really going strong. Very obviously a high priority in American schools these days. ::) :P

Now what kind of critical analysis training does one receive in order to be on the Bias Incident Response Team?
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby grzegorz on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:08 pm

Education is very important. We also have people here with good educations but due to changes in the economy they ended up here. In my case I would have liked to have got an advanced degree but as soon as I got married the kids arrived, which was a surprise for both of us. The wife wanted me to go back to school but I just wanted to work but as a result of this job my wife can leave her good job at a software company, go back to school and get a job in education. So I don't think it has to be union jobs vs. jobs with a advanced degree.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:05 pm

I can honestly say that I've met equally intelligent people in the construction trades and in professional academia. Afa the construction workers, they were well read because the job gave them free time. What the construction workers didn't have was the time to write.

Anyway, having a fixed time for work means one can plan for free time. A person is not what he does.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:49 pm

grzegorz wrote:Education is very important. We also have people here with good educations but due to changes in the economy they ended up here. In my case I would have liked to have got an advanced degree but as soon as I got married the kids arrived, which was a surprise for both of us. The wife wanted me to go back to school but I just wanted to work but as a result of this job my wife can leave her good job at a software company, go back to school and get a job in education. So I don't think it has to be union jobs vs. jobs with a advanced degree.


I totally agree and it sounds like you rightly are proud of both your education and job. That's a pretty good place to be mentally and spiritually.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:53 pm

Michael wrote:Yeah, that critical theory analysis is really going strong. Very obviously a high priority in American schools these days. ::) :P

Now what kind of critical analysis training does one receive in order to be on the Bias Incident Response Team?


This is what comes from being educated by podcasts on the internet. Paranoia and fixation of the most extreme examples which have been spoon fed to you by JP, AJ, and JH. It's indicative of a lack of critical thinking.
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Re: Physicians vs. UPS

Postby Michael on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:24 pm

And your education seems to have best prepared you to attack reputation of strawman and avoid the real issue, as well as avoiding discussing the more relevant reputation of schools with BIRT's.
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