Getting science on your side

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Re: Getting science on your side

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:53 am

Willie hope you not see this as critique on your approach in TJQ I’m just a little intrigued about the info you put our that you bested an Chen-TJQ practitioner of 30 years experience, and some questions just popped up in my curious mind. For example…Was he considering himself to be an MAist/fighter?(I myself have been doing TJQ for almost 30yrs, but not for solely martial purpose and absolutely not for a reason to square off against trained fighters, so I personally don’t see myself as an “Taiji fighter” but more a Taiji hobbyist)...What were the rules of the “fight” just regular push hands or more toward Sanda?…Was there a weight/size difference?…What would you say was the main reason for his loss, no weightlifting or not enough free sparring practice?…Did you feel that he could be bested by an non Taiji practitioner such as an wrestler or even an regular strongman?……if he’s a serious martial art Taijiquan practitioner what is his linage?………as I said nothing about you or your approach toward Taijiquan, just randomly curious.
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Re: Getting science on your side

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:56 am

Willie hope you not see this as critique on your approach in TJQ I’m just a little intrigued about the info you put our that you bested an Chen-TJQ practitioner of 30 years experience, and some questions just popped up in my curious mind. For example…Was he considering himself to be an MAist/fighter?(I myself have been doing TJQ for almost 30yrs, but not for solely martial purpose and absolutely not for a reason to square off against trained fighters, so I personally don’t see myself as an “Taiji fighter” but more a Taiji hobbyist)...What were the rules of the “fight” just regular push hands or more toward Sanda?…Was there a weight/size difference?…What would you say was the main reason for his loss, no weightlifting or not enough free sparring practice?…Did you feel that he could be bested by an non Taiji practitioner such as an wrestler or even an regular strongman?……if he’s a serious martial art Taijiquan practitioner what is his linage?………as I said nothing about you or your approach toward Taijiquan, just randomly curious.
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Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:43 am

Trick wrote:Willie hope you not see this as critique on your approach in TJQ I’m just a little intrigued about the info you put our that you bested an Chen-TJQ practitioner of 30 years experience, and some questions just popped up in my curious mind. For example…Was he considering himself to be an MAist/fighter?(I myself have been doing TJQ for almost 30yrs, but not for solely martial purpose and absolutely not for a reason to square off against trained fighters, so I personally don’t see myself as an “Taiji fighter” but more a Taiji hobbyist)...What were the rules of the “fight” just regular push hands or more toward Sanda?…Was there a weight/size difference?…What would you say was the main reason for his loss, no weightlifting or not enough free sparring practice?…Did you feel that he could be bested by an non Taiji practitioner such as an wrestler or even an regular strongman?……if he’s a serious martial art Taijiquan practitioner what is his linage?………as I said nothing about you or your approach toward Taijiquan, just randomly curious.

Hi trick, I would rather just stick to the topic instead. I posted in the off the topic section to avoid these silly arguments.
But one thing I will tell you is it's not just one it's many. Thank you
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:32 am

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:Perhaps you underestimated once again?



Willie you're not the first tai chi person to go down this road and your ignoring people's advice is very foolish. Besides that you seem to be doing a good job at the stuff in and of itself. Your main blind spot here is that because you don't understand the goal of your training you think doing these kinds of exercise will help -- it won't. That is, unless your training has fallen so far away from tai chi now that you aren't really doing tai chi anymore, which I suspect.


One reason why I created this thread is to separate fact from fiction. I believe that it is imperative to have a foundation that is built on fact.
Building on speculation is always a grave mistake...

If I evaluated your post, You seem to operate completely on fiction. first calling me unprofessional and my knowledge of the subject "full of holes".
Then onto foolish remarks about my understanding of taiji.

I think that perhaps you may want to apologize for those foolish remarks?

In this video, I am using a York Hercules Olympic weight set to squat with. I am the original owner of it. I bought it in either 1992-93. Perhaps you should
do the math and figure out just how long I've been involved the the subject?
And seeing how you didn't happen to notice, my house has a complete gym inside. do you really think that I'm ever going to quit?


I added a picture of me with my grand teacher to this video as well...
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby Appledog on Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:39 am

willie wrote:I think that perhaps you may want to apologize for those foolish remarks?


No, I won't answer for what I did not say. Besides, you don't seem like you want to answer my questions either, so you appear to be at an impasse. I'm just here for the discussions. Arguments like the one I find myself in now bore me.

I'm reading all your posts and there's some interesting info here. If and when you ask me a question which you are ready to have answered I'd be happy to chime in. For example as a long-time forms judge you might find it interesting what I would say about your form. Otherwise good luck with the WHJ stuff, just don't misplace someone like myself with your teacher. I never had any interest or desire to teach you or correct you anything. Just here to share and learn.
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Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:49 am

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:I think that perhaps you may want to apologize for those foolish remarks?


No, I won't answer for what I did not say. Besides, you don't seem like you want to answer my questions either, so you appear to be at an impasse. I'm just here for the discussions. Arguments like the one I find myself in now bore me.

I'm reading all your posts and there's some interesting info here. If and when you ask me a question which you are ready to have answered I'd be happy to chime in. For example as a long-time forms judge you might find it interesting what I would say about your form. Otherwise good luck with the WHJ stuff, just don't misplace someone like myself with your teacher. I never had any interest or desire to teach you or correct you anything. Just here to share and learn.


LOL!
You said everything that I said you said and I quoted it.
No point arguing with you, You just don't get it.

I'm going to answer your questions.

First, my teacher's son plays collage football. He has a full set of weights in his basement..."He most likely could not compete without it"

Second. One of HeJinBao's senior students D.C. trains "weightlifting"at the same gym as I do.
I discussed this topic with him as well. This is what he said.

"Chen Fake often used a 30 pound mace while doing his workouts, it was for developing more power".

Third. taiji has a goal, it's to defeat your opponent, just like any other martial art.

Now, if you would like to take the floor, please offer evidence that supports your position, Not assumptions...
Last edited by willie on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:59 am, edited 5 times in total.
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby Appledog on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:38 pm

willie wrote:Now, if you would like to take the floor, please offer evidence that supports your position, Not assumptions...


Sure. First, if your teacher's son plays college football I am not surprised he lifts weights. What's wrong with that? Your teacher's teacher, OTOH, has commented on this subject with respect to Tai Chi (see: http://www.nickgudge.ie/5.c.ii.-intervi ... l-yao.html). My position is that I agree with what Chen Zhenglei said in that interview.

Anyways thank you for bringing up a CFK story. I love to discuss CFK stories! First thing I can tell you is that weapons training is functional, and 20-30 pounds while heavy for a weapon is not like pressing 200+ on a plane you will not use. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD6X3SpYCWY -- this kind of training still goes on today, for sure. The weapon is well-known -- it was featured in a fight scene in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (https://youtu.be/DFH6lXJ6c4k?t=138). Incidentally, it's my favorite scene in the whole movie. I plan on making it my signature weapon when I get a chance to learn it. Anyways since I just brought up a CZQ video, I will note that CZQ is quoted as saying "Lifting heavy stones is done as a means to training the waist and lower body. The strength training method is highly specialised. You are not training to develop “stupid strength” (brute or localised strength)." Whatever you do, never let the weights interfere with fangsong -- if you find yourself sore or in recovery the next day, you are doing it wrong with respect to tai chi.

These answer are pretty much in line with my personal experience in the matter. I've done experiments where I do 100 kettlebell swings a day for up to three months, or 100 military presses a day, or long periods of walking (up to 10 hours a day) for months, or running gym machine circuits just to see what kind of effect these kinds of exercises will have on my body. I can tell you without any bias (after all, I did the work for extended periods of time) that the weight exercises simply do not help. The closest it ever came was with the kettlebell swings. But in the end, I decided to stop doing them because they were pulling me off-axis (among other problems). The goals are different. The goals being different the results are different. You just have to remember what your goals are.
Last edited by Appledog on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:Now, if you would like to take the floor, please offer evidence that supports your position, Not assumptions...


Sure. First, if your teacher's son plays college football I am not surprised he lifts weights. What's wrong with that? Your teacher's teacher, OTOH, has commented on this subject with respect to Tai Chi (see: http://www.nickgudge.ie/5.c.ii.-intervi ... l-yao.html). My position is that I agree with what Chen Zhenglei said in that interview.

Anyways thank you for bringing up a CFK story. I love to discuss CFK stories!


O.K. so I briefly read what CZL had to say. I didn't see anything in there that was in conflict with my understanding.
If you had watched some of my martial video's, a lot of what he is talking about was in those video's.
There are nearly none on the net either.
Taiji is not anything like 99% of the population thinks it is.

Again, weightlifting makes people better because their body is better, stronger, healthier, more resistant to injuries.
Plus that the harsh environment of it creates a mental toughness as well. All of those attributes only help a person
on a martial journey.
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:39 pm

More proof.
Science News
Resistance Exercise Reverses Aging In Human Skeletal Muscle.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 210936.htm
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:01 am

Wow, I find it kind of hard to believe that there was no interest in the fact that weight lifting reverses aging.
Anyway's, A new video with a couple more bits of info on it. for those still interested.
willie

 

Re: Getting science on your side

Postby willie on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:32 am

there was several people who claimed that my weightlifting would ruin my taiji, but
Not a single person has offered me one shred of proof, just more B.S.?

Working with an injury...

Last edited by willie on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
willie

 

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