China view of Trump

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Re: China view of Trump

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:36 am

windwalker wrote:
WW wrote :He himself may not even be aware of it due to how his business is now structured.

If he is aware of it he may not be able to do anything about it for the same reasons


do you feel the priorities of a businessman and president of the United States are the same.


He is nothing more than a failed businessman and a reaility TV star.

Someone said he didn't know his products were made in China and I proved otherwise.

Why defend him? Just admit that he can't handle the presidency and you will better off and realize that the tax breaks did nothing for the working man and healthcare premiums will go up for everybody and he did nothing for anyone but the extremely rich.

Fantasies are nice but I prefer reality.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:50 am

Peacedog wrote:He strikes me as the older, grumpy, head of household who is calling out his layabout nephew who has been sleeping on his couch to get his shit together (the Euros and NATO) and telling the local grocer who has his finger on the scale (the Chinese) to stop ripping him off or he'll shop elsewhere.


1. All of Trump's merchandise is made in China. His beef with China is nothing more than his re-election campaign.

2. No one, including the US, pays into NATO. The objective is to get country's to pay more into their own military. Costa Rice said f*** it and got rid of their military to spend that money on the people for universal healthcare and free universities and as result has the highest living standard in Central America.

3. Bullying the press and media is the first sign of a despot.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:47 pm

1. The vast majority of Trump's financial business involves real estate and development. His merchandising is a very small side business. His beef with China involves rampant intellectual property fraud, currency manipulation and swamping foreign markets with intentionally underpriced goods. The RMB alone should be trading at about 4:1 to the dollar not the almost 7:1 it is today. To look at unfair trade practices you only need to go as far as Chinese solar panel sales. The Middle Kingdom has been gaming the West for years and Trump is calling them out on it.

2. Not even remotely true. See the link for the direct NATO budget. It's about $2B. Of which the US contributes a little less than 25%. Although, Trump's main issue is overall European defense spending. With the exception of the UK, and to a very limited degree France, the European military capabilities are so far behind the US their ability to integrate is fast approaching zero. And Costa Rica is dependent upon the US for its military protection. Good luck if the situation with Nicaragua gets any worse. Don't forget that as the international guarantor of free sea trade routes if the US withdrew internationally international free trade would largely collapse. I cannot imagine the Chinese, or Russians, being in charge and being so benign regarding free riders and unfettered trade for all. https://www.statista.com/chart/8186/dir ... ions-nato/

3. Calling out people who have a distinct political bias against you isn't bullying. It's accountability. If the press wants the benefits of being the press, it needs to act in a preferably unbiased, but at least non-hostile, manner. Otherwise, they are editorializing, not reporting, and no one has a responsibility to aid people devoted towards hurting them. Why would Trump give any airtime to someone like Acosta, or Maddow, when all they are going to do is misquote or manipulate what he says? Not to mention, that modern mass communications now allows for speakers to directly talk to the public and spread their message without distortion. Again, why would you play into someone's hands who has repeated stated they will not support your agenda?

At the end of the day, Trump is really just a nebulously conservative businessman in terms of his policy decisions. The fact that the US just came out of eight years of a hard left internationalist presidency makes the comparison jarring. Don't worry in six years another guy will be there.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:14 pm

3. Calling out people who have a distinct political bias against you isn't bullying. It's accountability. If the press wants the benefits of being the press, it needs to act in an unbiased manner. Otherwise, they are editorializing, not reporting, and no one has a responsibility to aid people devoted towards hurting them.


Well, freedom of the press is specifically a first amendment right to criticize the government. Whatever the press prints that is untrue is subject to the prosecution for libel or slander. Secondly, the amount of bias is irrelevant. Printing what the president says and then laughing at it is simply free speech, even if he doesn't like it.

Thirdly, the "press" and media are the People. The president is not. He criticizes the justice department, the federal reserve, the intelligence agencies, and other institutions of government on a regular basis -specifically because they disagree. Let's not even consider his attacks on private individuals. Of course, he can criticize Jay Z, the NFL, and anyone he pleases. Likewise, I'm sure. And, if he can't take the heat, he shouldn't claim alpha male status. He's a cry baby who lashes out like a toddler. He doesn't have to watch the news, or he can just force everyone in his administration to watch FOX. The same goes for his supporters who think the news coverage is unfair. Don't watch. Just stop whining. It is not an argument.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:25 pm

Steve,

While I agree that the press is free to criticize, those being criticized are under no pressure to submit to that.

Frankly, I find most of the whining coming from the press as the conventional media has no ability to shape the message any more. The fact that they are as biased as they are is just leading to a lot of people refusing to deal with them at all. Whole industries, for example oil and gas, don't even bother engaging with most media sources as they have determined it is a waste of time. I think the ongoing collapse of the major papers is largely an indication of this.

As for his criticizing government agencies, well they aren't allowed to disagree as he is the head of the executive branch. The lack of people losing their jobs in federal government by acting against the interests of a sitting president is a bigger problem. And the long term result of that will probably be the wholesale loss of employment rights by those government workers. The US isn't India and will not brook an unaccountable bureaucracy long term. It has been an issue for about thirty to forty years now and it is really just a matter of the right lawsuits going through.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:33 pm

Civilians pledge allegiance to the flag, not the president. The president is not the people, and if the press is his enemy, it is not the people's enemy because of it.

Afa as whining, Trump whines more than any president in my memory. Bush was called a dunce and laughed at, but joked about it. Obama was cool. No one has made or called the "press" and the media, in general, the enemy of the people. It's the opposite. The fact is that Trump's supporters don't want the negative coverage to exist. Therefore, the blame the messenger.
However, simply claiming media bias is not an argument for or against anything except the press.

Everybody knows that media is just like the internet and assholes. Everyone with access has shit to say. It's too bad if the president doesn't get enough likes. He needs to htfu and get down to business. I'm sure there are more important things for him to do than listen to Lebron and then take time to comment. Dumb. Nobody cares.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:06 pm

Peacedog wrote:1. The vast majority of Trump's financial business involves real estate and development. His merchandising is a very small side business. His beef with China involves rampant intellectual property fraud, currency manipulation and swamping foreign markets with intentionally underpriced goods. The RMB alone should be trading at about 4:1 to the dollar not the almost 7:1 it is today. To look at unfair trade practices you only need to go as far as Chinese solar panel sales. The Middle Kingdom has been gaming the West for years and Trump is calling them out on it.

2. Not even remotely true. See the link for the direct NATO budget. It's about $2B. Of which the US contributes a little less than 25%. Although, Trump's main issue is overall European defense spending. With the exception of the UK, and to a very limited degree France, the European military capabilities are so far behind the US their ability to integrate is fast approaching zero. And Costa Rica is dependent upon the US for its military protection. Good luck if the situation with Nicaragua gets any worse. Don't forget that as the international guarantor of free sea trade routes if the US withdrew internationally international free trade would largely collapse. I cannot imagine the Chinese, or Russians, being in charge and being so benign regarding free riders and unfettered trade for all. https://www.statista.com/chart/8186/dir ... ions-nato/

3. Calling out people who have a distinct political bias against you isn't bullying. It's accountability. If the press wants the benefits of being the press, it needs to act in a preferably unbiased, but at least non-hostile, manner. Otherwise, they are editorializing, not reporting, and no one has a responsibility to aid people devoted towards hurting them. Why would Trump give any airtime to someone like Acosta, or Maddow, when all they are going to do is misquote or manipulate what he says? Not to mention, that modern mass communications now allows for speakers to directly talk to the public and spread their message without distortion. Again, why would you play into someone's hands who has repeated stated they will not support your agenda?

At the end of the day, Trump is really just a nebulously conservative businessman in terms of his policy decisions. The fact that the US just came out of eight years of a hard left internationalist presidency makes the comparison jarring. Don't worry in six years another guy will be there.



Good post ;)

As I understand his business dealings he's put them in what's called a blind Trust. He's not supposed to be able to influence them one way or the other.

For example the merchandise made in China. If he attempted to change this there would be many that would say he was doing it to benefit his presidency..

Just as there are those who claim his presidency benefits his businesses on other transactions as president
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:18 pm

Steve James wrote:Civilians pledge allegiance to the flag, not the president. The president is not the people, and if the press is his enemy, it is not the people's enemy because of it.

Afa as whining, Trump whines more than any president in my memory. Bush was called a dunce and laughed at, but joked about it. Obama was cool. No one has made or called the "press" and the media, in general, the enemy of the people. It's the opposite. The fact is that Trump's supporters don't want the negative coverage to exist. Therefore, the blame the messenger.
However, simply claiming media bias is not an argument for or against anything except the press.
kind of goes hand-in-hand with having 90 + negative coverage by the Press since day one.
you might want to look at what Obama did to press reporters during his presidency.


Everybody knows that media is just like the internet and assholes. Everyone with access has shit to say. It's too bad if the president doesn't get enough likes. the things said in social media would never have been said about the Obama presidency by those with a voice who could say them, without repercussions from the same media used. He needs to htfu and get down to business. I'm sure there are more important things for him to do than listen to Lebron and then take time to comment. Dumb. Nobody cares.


If no one cares why bring it up.

How do you know he's not getting down to business.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:47 pm

Speaking of social media

Twitter slapped Turning Point USA Communications Director Candace Owens with a temporary suspension after she highlighted racist posts made by Sarah Jeong, the recent New York Times hire whose long history of bigoted tweets about white people has placed the newspaper at the center of a public outcry.

The beleaguered platform then reversed the ban, calling it an “error” in an email to Owens.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/ ... gs-racism/

Yep just an error, good thing they fixed it.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:08 pm

Put it like this, right now, Trump "is" the government. All criticisms of it can legitimately directed at him and focused on him. It's the job.

If the press are impeded from doing it to him, what's to say that a future president --who's really bad from everyone's perspective-- won't censure or limit them? So, consider the press coverage a perk, like riding in AF1.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:16 pm

Steve James wrote:Put it like this, right now, Trump "is" the government. All criticisms of it can legitimately directed at him and focused on him. It's the job.

If the press are impeded from doing it to him, what's to say that a future president --who's really bad from everyone's perspective-- won't censure or limit them? So, consider the press coverage a perk, like riding in AF1.



They are actively taken part and roll in trying to replace or demonize a duly elected president.

The Press is owned by about six entities. The same can be said for social media.

I would expect at sometime in the near future that some type of constraints will be enacted. Mainly due to the media Outlets themselves who have proven they are no longer Stewart's or provide benefits from what is normally called The Free Press.

They are not free
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:01 pm

Peacedog wrote:1. The vast majority of Trump's financial business involves real estate and development. His merchandising is a very small side business. His beef with China involves rampant intellectual property fraud, currency manipulation and swamping foreign markets with intentionally underpriced goods. The RMB alone should be trading at about 4:1 to the dollar not the almost 7:1 it is today. To look at unfair trade practices you only need to go as far as Chinese solar panel sales. The Middle Kingdom has been gaming the West for years and Trump is calling them out on it.

2. Not even remotely true. See the link for the direct NATO budget. It's about $2B. Of which the US contributes a little less than 25%. Although, Trump's main issue is overall European defense spending. With the exception of the UK, and to a very limited degree France, the European military capabilities are so far behind the US their ability to integrate is fast approaching zero. And Costa Rica is dependent upon the US for its military protection. Good luck if the situation with Nicaragua gets any worse. Don't forget that as the international guarantor of free sea trade routes if the US withdrew internationally international free trade would largely collapse. I cannot imagine the Chinese, or Russians, being in charge and being so benign regarding free riders and unfettered trade for all. https://www.statista.com/chart/8186/dir ... ions-nato/

3. Calling out people who have a distinct political bias against you isn't bullying. It's accountability. If the press wants the benefits of being the press, it needs to act in a preferably unbiased, but at least non-hostile, manner. Otherwise, they are editorializing, not reporting, and no one has a responsibility to aid people devoted towards hurting them. Why would Trump give any airtime to someone like Acosta, or Maddow, when all they are going to do is misquote or manipulate what he says? Not to mention, that modern mass communications now allows for speakers to directly talk to the public and spread their message without distortion. Again, why would you play into someone's hands who has repeated stated they will not support your agenda?

At the end of the day, Trump is really just a nebulously conservative businessman in terms of his policy decisions. The fact that the US just came out of eight years of a hard left internationalist presidency makes the comparison jarring. Don't worry in six years another guy will be there.


You completely missed my point about Costa Rica. The fact is these countries who choose to invest in their people don't have people trying to flee their home countries. The people trying to legally seek asylum here, which is legal under international law, are not from Costa Rica.

As to NATO countries the 2% was put their by Clinton. I say f*** it! I was a Navy vet and I know BS when I see it. Shaking up NATO is a gift to Putin.

Trump is not criticizing spending on NATO as much as other countries own spending on their military.

Trump is out of his league and like W when this is all done his supporters will mysteriously disappear. But this rigged the last election and will rig the next one too in which case you will get to see the effects of his policies firsthand while he is still in office.

The irony is I have benefited from the GOP destructive policies. I got a house at half price due to the W's economic collaspe and got a fat raise due the fact that my union can open the books and see how much profits and gains are made from the cooperate tax cuts. Yet when I vote it isn't about me but for the common good and all working people. I just don't believe the rich and the cooperations need more help than they get already.

I appreciate your feedback.
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:04 pm

THE WIRE

Trump Still Distorting NATO Spending

By D'Angelo Gore

Posted on July 9, 2018

7.9K

President Donald Trump continues to wrongly claim that the United States is paying as much as 90 percent of the cost of operating the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

In reality, the U.S. share of the commonly funded NATO budget is currently just over 22 percent, according to the most recent figures from NATO.

Trump’s complaints about NATO spending are actually based on how much the U.S. spends on its own defense compared with what other member nations spend on theirs.

Still, the U.S. share of total defense spending by all alliance members in 2017 was an estimated 67 percent, according to inflation-adjusted figures from NATO.

Trump’s most recent criticism of NATO came in a series of morning tweets on July 9, just days before he attends a two-day summit in Brussels with other NATO leaders.

He wrote that it “is not fair, nor is it acceptable” that “The United States is spending far more on NATO than any other Country.”

As we have written before, Trump is conflating NATO’s direct and indirect spending to claim that the U.S. “is paying for 90% of NATO.”

In direct costs, the U.S. currently pays about 22 percent of NATO’s “principal budgets” that are funded by all alliance members based on a cost-sharing formula that factors in the gross national income of each country. The principal budget categories include the civil budget, the military budget and the NATO Security Investment Programme (NSIP).

“Direct contributions are made to finance requirements of the Alliance that serve the interests of all 29 members — and are not the responsibility of any single member — such as NATO-wide air defence or command and control systems,” NATO says. “Costs are borne collectively, often using the principle of common funding.”

NATO says its military budget for 2018 is €1.325 billion (or about $1.55 billion). Its civil budget is €245.8 million (or about $289 million). And the ceiling for the NSIP is €700 million (or about $822 million). That means the U.S. share for all three combined would be around $590 million, at most.

Direct spending may also include other “joint funding” projects that are arranged by participating NATO countries, but that are still overseen politically and financially by NATO. Those programs “vary in the number of participating countries, cost-share arrangements and management structures,” NATO says.

Trump, however, is referring to so-called indirect spending, which is the amount that the U.S. and other NATO countries willingly spend on their own defense budgets.

The 90 percent figure cited by Trump is still too high, according to NATO estimates.

In a June 27 update on spending, NATO said: “Today, the volume of the US defence expenditure effectively represents some 67 per cent of the defence spending of the Alliance as a whole.” That disparity “has been a constant,” NATO says, and has only grown since the U.S. began increasing its defense spending after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

All together, the 29 alliance members spent an estimated $917 billion on defense in 2017, and the U.S. portion was about $618 billion.

(NATO says those figures are based on 2010 constant prices and exchange rates. In current prices and exchange rates, the U.S. share would be roughly 72 percent of total defense spending by the alliance.)

Either way, that still isn’t how much the U.S. “is paying for NATO,” as Trump has repeatedly described it.

As NATO said in its June update: “This does not mean that the United States covers 67 per cent of the costs involved in the operational running of NATO as an organisation, including its headquarters in Brussels and its subordinate military commands, but it does mean that there is an over-reliance by the Alliance as a whole on the United States for the provision of essential capabilities, including for instance, in regard to intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; air-to-air refuelling; ballistic missile defence; and airborne electronic warfare.”

On the other hand, Trump is right that many countries in the international security alliance come “nowhere close to their 2% commitment.”

In 2006, NATO members agreed to try to spend at least 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense spending. In 2014, they agreed again to aim to meet that standard by 2024.

But in March, NATO said that only four nations met that guideline in 2017: the U.S. (3.57 percent), Greece (2.36 percent), Britain (2.12 percent) and Estonia (2.08 percent). Poland, at an estimated 1.99 percent of GDP, was just shy of the goal.

Trump is pushing for other countries to spend more on their own defense, while taking credit for some increases that have already occurred.

“While these countries have been increasing their contributions since I took office, they must do much more,” he wrote on Twitter.

There was an estimated 4.87 percent increase in total defense spending by Canada and European allies in 2017, marking the third straight year that defense spending by those countries increased, according to NATO. That was after several years of declines in spending by those countries.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told Politico EU’s Confidential podcastthis month that he expects eight nations will cross the 2 percent threshold in 2018, which he said was up from three countries in 2014.

Share The Facts

Donald Trump

President of the United States


"By some accounts, the U.S. is paying for 90% of NATO, with many countries nowhere close to their 2% commitment."

Twitter – Monday, July 9, 2018

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Re: China view of Trump

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:47 am

Peacedog wrote:1. The vast majority of Trump's financial business involves real estate and development. His merchandising is a very small side business. His beef with China involves rampant intellectual property fraud, currency manipulation and swamping foreign markets with intentionally underpriced goods. The RMB alone should be trading at about 4:1 to the dollar not the almost 7:1 it is today. To look at unfair trade practices you only need to go as far as Chinese solar panel sales. The Middle Kingdom has been gaming the West for years and Trump is calling them out on it.
.



Worked in the solar industry for a company that made solar cells as an equipment tech for the different tools sets used in
production. While the company was able to sell its cells with more orders then it could fill, the chinese companies or I should say China. undercut the
price making it cost more to produce them then they could be sold for.

I dont fault the Chinese, who bought a lot of their manufacturing tools from the west and the US.

They had a plan,
we didn't.

The OP title China's view of President Trump.

Most of what I've read is reflected in this article.

In the west, most foreign policy experts see him as reckless, unpredictable and self-defeating.

But though many in Asia dislike him as much as the Europeans do, they see him as a more substantial figure.

I have just spent a week in Beijing talking to officials and intellectuals, many of whom are awed by his skill as a strategist and tactician


Trumps polices go largely unnoticed or reported, while the free press is looking for the next thing to use against him, a direct result of their biased out look...looking for what they hope to find to fit their narrative, missing the the real story...


They describe him as a master tactician, focusing on one issue at a time, and extracting as many concessions as he can. …

For the Chinese, even Mr Trump’s sycophantic press conference with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, in Helsinki had a strategic purpose. They see it as Henry Kissinger in reverse. In 1972, the US nudged China off the Soviet axis in order to put pressure on its real rival, the Soviet Union.

Today Mr Trump is reaching out to Russia in order to isolate China.

— Mark Leonard, president of the European Council on Foreign Relations, writing in the Financial Times:

“The Chinese are wary of Donald Trump’s creative destruction”


https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/russiaga ... ign-policy

Once the order is destroyed, the Chinese elite believes, Mr Trump will move to stage two: renegotiating America’s relationship with other powers. Because the US is still the most powerful country in the world, it will be able to negotiate with other countries from a position of strength if it deals with them one at a time rather than through multilateral institutions that empower the weak at the expense of the strong….


This is why the TPP was a bad idea, it gave the US no advantage and put it at a disadvantage.


it deals with them one at a time rather than through multilateral institutions that empower the weak at the expense of the strong


good strategy
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Re: China view of Trump

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:24 am

They are actively taken part and roll in trying to replace


Bullshit. The media doesn't run Congress or the courts. They can't replace the city dog catcher.

The problem is that my president is a liar and doesn't like being called out on it. I want the press to be able to tell me whatever my president (or country) does wrong. Quoting Stalin, imo, is a mistake. Either he's not aware of its history, making him ignorant at worst, devious at best if he thought it up himself; or, he knows the origin of the term "the press is the enemy of the people." In the 20th century, only dictators in totalitarian societies used that language. Meh, look up lugenpresse --a phrase that was apparently shouted by some at a Trump rally.

Naw, the enemies of the people are the enemies of the press.
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