'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:47 pm

‘Stand Your Ground’ Gunman Michael Drejka Threatened People 3 Times Before Killing Markeis McGlockton

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/08/14 ... reats/amp/
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Peacedog on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:48 pm

Actually, that's the funny part. The driver got hauled off to an Afghan jail for about 60 days, but three months later he was back. The soldier in question recovered completely after about a week at a hospital and returned to finish his tour. Although we moved him to a different FOB for his safety.

And I would differ with you on the generational perception of danger. As a child growing up in south Texas the violent crime rate was far higher that it is today.

Too many people act like jerks in modern Western society as it has become so safe no real penalty exists for that type of behavior. That is until you run into someone who simply doesn't care.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:12 pm

Well, I was always taught that killing someone was the last thing one would ever want to do. Even in wartime, there was supposed to be a good reason. Otherwise, it was murder; not only against the law, but murder. So, the idea was that you should do everything possible to avoid killing unless it was necessary.

When is it necessary becomes the question. Before the specific "stand your ground" laws, the assumption was that there was some obligation to retreat, if one could. You could always defend yourself in your home, because you had no duty to retreat. But, what about on the street. If you can walk away, is that your obligation. Stand your ground laws argue that you have no such duty.

Then, however, the question becomes more complex. There's no one who would argue that if someone is trying to kill you, it's your right to kill that person --even if that person is not in control of his or her senses. But, what if a drunk guy pushes you at a bar, and you happen to be armed, is shooting him in the heart acceptable? You don't have to leave the bar, but wouldn't it be a better option? Why? Because human life is precious and irreplaceable. Ok, "all lives matter."

That's my problem with many of these stand your ground defenses. It cheapens life. I can't imagine how I'd feel if I killed someone when I didn't have to. Unfortunately, I think there are people who are anxious to do so. Anyway, I found this interesting video. Don't mind the racism. Do you think that this guy should have shot? If he were, would the shooter be able to use a stand your ground defense? Well, we could also who was behaving like a Christian.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUp2pYB6x6E
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Peacedog wrote:Actually, that's the funny part. The driver got hauled off to an Afghan jail for about 60 days, but three months later he was back. The soldier in question recovered completely after about a week at a hospital and returned to finish his tour. Although we moved him to a different FOB for his safety.

And I would differ with you on the generational perception of danger. As a child growing up in south Texas the violent crime rate was far higher that it is today.

Too many people act like jerks in modern Western society as it has become so safe no real penalty exists for that type of behavior. That is until you run into someone who simply doesn't care.


In this case the jerk was the shooter.

I agree with you that pushing someone cursing out your wife was not a good decision but when the gun appeared the young man stepped back in a non-violent stance and dude shot him. To me this is no different from any other type of thuggish behavior despite race or skin color.

If both dudes were white I would see it the same way but if both dudes were white I doubt this would have be a news atory because the shooter would have been arrested at the scene.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:10 pm

Steve James wrote:Well, I was always taught that killing someone was the last thing one would ever want to do. Even in wartime, there was supposed to be a good reason. Otherw

Then, however, the question becomes more complex. There's no one who would argue that if someone is trying to kill you, it's your right to kill that person --even if that person is not in control of his or her senses. But, what if a drunk guy pushes you at a bar, and you happen to be armed, is shooting him in the heart acceptable? You don't have to leave the bar, but wouldn't it be a better option? Why? Because human life is precious and irreplaceable. Ok, "all lives matter."



donno if all lives matter considering the present discussion

Five months into the year, more than 1,000 people have been shot in Chicago and there have been more than 200 homicides, according to data kept by the Tribune. As of early Monday at least 1,071 people have been shot this year, below the last two years when violence hit record levels in the city but well above other recent years. There have been at least 202 homicides, the data shows.


I wonder how many used the stand your ground, or turf.
You say ignore race, the title of the thread is racist implying
that a law made is specifically used as the title suggest to "kill people of color"

is it?

Regarding your example drunk guy in a bar.

A civilian's use of deadly force is generally justified if he or she reasonably believe that he or she is or other innocent lives are in imminent danger of death or serious injury.[1] Justification and affirmative defenses vary by state and may include certain property crimes, specific crimes against children or prevention of sexual assaults. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force


Whether it was acceptable or not is determined by the law and jury.
In many cases the stand your ground defense was not accepted, the person went to prison.
The point of walking away was mitigated by the law, which many believe to be a mistake.

The castle doctrine a similar law

A castle doctrine, also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law, is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place (for example, a vehicle or home) as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used.

[1] The term is most commonly used in the United States, though many other countries[which?] invoke comparable principles in their laws.


This also has failed in defense of actions taken, its not a sure thing....
Stand your ground was in part based on this law.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:01 pm

donno if all lives matter considering the present discussion


You probably can't and never will.

You say ignore race, the title of the thread is racist implying
that a law made is specifically used as the title suggest to "kill people of color"


I didn't write the title of the thread. I only gave an opinion that didn't rely on race. Some people can do it; some can't.

In the video I posted, one guy is attacking another. The question was would it be acceptable for the guy getting pushed to shoot the pusher in the heart. My answer was/is no ... because all lives matter to me. It's somewhat surprising to me that some people are so casual about killing.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:24 pm

Steve James wrote:
donno if all lives matter considering the present discussion


You probably can't and never will.

please feel free to let me know how many lives you've saved and how many didn't make it
having worked with death I''ve made my own peace with this


You say ignore race, the title of the thread is racist implying
that a law made is specifically used as the title suggest to "kill people of color"


I didn't write the title of the thread. I only gave an opinion that didn't rely on race. Some people can do it; some can't.

why ask to forget about race as if its not about race, of course the thread is about race, read the latest OP post.

Why post a clip with a racist and then say its not about race ::)


In the video I posted, one guy is attacking another. The question was would it be acceptable for the guy getting pushed to shoot the pusher in the heart. My answer was/is no ... because all lives matter to me. It's somewhat surprising to me that some people are so casual about killing.


Its not a matter of what matters to you, its a matter of a moment in time which your trying to judge from a computer screen making a judgement call.
You or most won't really know hopefully never having to know.

The more pertinent question. Is carrying a lethal weapon more apt to put one in a situation where they will use it or not.

In stand your ground or castle doctrine, in many cases the use of leathly force was propagated by having the force ie gun to express it with.
In most cases IMO people with out the ability to express it, often do not unless there is no choice, then they become the weapon.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby windwalker on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:09 pm

.A 79-year-old homeowner in Benzie County, Michigan, greeted an alleged intruder with a shotgun blast to both legs.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-governmen ... both-legs/

No need to forget about race it's not mentioned.

This is what an old man did, when confronted with an intruder
shot gun blast to the legs with buckshot,,,,gotta hurt :-\
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:18 pm

Trump said he plan to solve violence in Chicago but everything he says and does it was a con.

This will be an interesting case. Zimmerman had no video of the confrontation, he was part of neighborhood watch, we never got Treyvon's account (obviously) and the witnesses recalled mixed things.

This case is very different in that we have video, witnesses and evidence of what actually occurred. I think this case could go either way depending on the jury but being that it is Florida I am skeptical that we will see justice and we will see more senseless violence with people losing family members to more random shootings.

In other Florida news...

88-Year-Old Florida Man Burns Raccoon Alive Over Eating Mangoes

http://time.com/5371161/florida-man-bur ... g-mangoes/
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Peacedog wrote:Actually, that's the funny part. The driver got hauled off to an Afghan jail for about 60 days, but three months later he was back. The soldier in question recovered completely after about a week at a hospital and returned to finish his tour. Although we moved him to a different FOB for his safety.

And I would differ with you on the generational perception of danger. As a child growing up in south Texas the violent crime rate was far higher that it is today.

Too many people act like jerks in modern Western society as it has become so safe no real penalty exists for that type of behavior. That is until you run into someone who simply doesn't care.


60 days in jail? Damn! That sucks for the American.

It's strange about crime. Everyone thinks it is rising yet generally it is the opposite. I am sure what times you are comparing but according to this voilent crime in Dallas has gone down since the eighties.

I think the difference is today in the news if it bleeds it leads. The news keeps people in fear because fear sells.

http://time.com/4651122/homicides-increase-cities-2016/
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:17 am

If anyone wants the truth read verifiable news, not Breitbart.

Drejka has some history of this crap. Read the CBS article posted on top, here is one of several stories.

A truck driver parked in a handicapped-accessible spot

About three months ago, Richard Kelly told a Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office detective he was confronted by Drejka at Circle A Food Store, the same store where he shot McGlockton. Drejka, documents said, was upset because Kelly parked in a handicapped-accessible spot. The exchange between the two became very loud and Kelly said at some point during the argument Drejka told him he was going to shoot him, documents said.

Drejka then went to his car and was rummaging around the center console, but documents said Kelly drove away. Drejka, Kelly said, also threw racial slurs at him. Kelly is black and Drejka is white.

Court documents said Drejka wanted to voice his complaint to Kelly’s employer, AA Cut-Rate Septic Tank Service, so he spoke to the owner, John Tyler. Drejka told the business owner he was lucky he didn’t blow his employee’s head off, documents said.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:06 am

why ask to forget about race as if its not about race, of course the thread is about race, read the latest OP post.


Because I posted a video whose title was "racist" does xyz. I wanted any comment to ignore that it was a racist who was the aggressor. My point was about the incident, not the color/race/nationality/religion of the participants.

I've noticed that you've managed not to have an opinion on it. Simple. Of course, no opinion is an opinion.

Btw, regarding the incident,

Ugandan police arrested a man they have identified as Jimmy L. Taylor—a U.S. citizen—Thursday after a Facebook video surfaced showing him being verbally and physically abusive to employees at the Grand Imperial Hotel in the capital city of Kampala.


A far better alternative than blowing him away, which could be justified. Well, if we want to live in a world like that. I'm sure he'll find a lot of people to proselytize for Jesus in a Ugandan prison.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:43 am

Even the Afghan government can tell the difference between a case of criminal battery and insurrection.

Now I’m not saying the driver’s quick release didn’t result from some kind of payoff either. It reality the soldier’s injury wasn’t terribly serious and no long term disability took place either.

Plus I’m sure the criminal trial basically showed the soldier to be a ponce. And an Afghan judge would be a little more lenient with that.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:03 pm

True and in some countries getting into a fight to settle a score is perfectly reasonable and acceptable behavior. I am sure in Pashtun culture this is also the case.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Peacedog on Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:27 pm

Yeah, it was a little weird.

Chain of command was a lot more upset about it than I was. I remember hearing about it and asking, "was it so and so"? When the answer was yes, I wasn't terribly surprised. I was very happy no one was seriously injured.

I can't imagine 60 days in an Afghan prison was much fun for the driver either.

Basically, two guys acting like idiots and getting into a fight that didn't need to happen.

Now if my soldier had been killed, or permanently injured, we'd be talking a different outcome here.
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