'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:04 pm

windwalker wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Pointless conversation but igonrance is no excuse, trained LEO or not, this is manslaughter not SD.

Trump supporters turning Drejka into a hero, how are we not surprised?


Not really, it always seems that on a discussion board where differences of opinions can be discussed.
Some feel the need to seek validation for their viewpoints by suggesting others have a political affiliation
that has nothing to do with the thread.

No its not manslaughter until its been proven as such.

ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat


Yeah it's not coincidence that supporters of Drejka also happen to be Trump's hardcore base.

Right...
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6588
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Tuck Frump

Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:26 pm

windwalker wrote:
grzegorz wrote:No its not manslaughter until its been proven as such.

ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat


So says the man who was completely convinced that Trump would get Mexico to pay for a wall even though no proof or evidence was offered and Trump has never done anything like that in his life ever.

Yeah right! As if the opinions of 12 random azz strangers makes something true. I didn't say he was convicted I said it was manslaughter. You have your opinion then you are welcomed to present it. To me this incident as tragic as any other random shooting in the 24 hour news cycle.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6588
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Tuck Frump

Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:40 pm

Remember the Emmett Till murder? His attackers were acquitted, in spite of eye-witness testimony, and then they later sold the story of how they killed him to Life magazine. The Justice Dept just reopened the case after the wife of the man who did the murder recanted her story that the boy had whistled at her in the first place.

It's funny that, on this board, there are those who say that pushes aren't deadly. So, be careful out there, fellas.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 18595
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby grzegorz on Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:02 pm

Exactly!

Also I think sometimes people blame the victims because otherwise they would have to deal with emotions. I am not saying that it is or isn't the case here as much as I think it is human nature.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6588
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Tuck Frump

Re: 'Stand your ground' law is license to kill people of color

Postby marvin8 on Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:29 am

grzegorz wrote:Exactly!

Also I think sometimes people blame the victims because otherwise they would have to deal with emotions. I am not saying that it is or isn't the case here as much as I think it is human nature.

I agree. In this recent interview, Drejka come across angry, chip on his shoulder, liar (e.g., contradicts incident witnesses and shooting video), pressure from financial problems and possible racist. Not sure if his attorneys encouraged this interview.

10News WTSP
Published on Aug 31, 2018

Michael Drejka, charged with manslaughter in the fatal July 19 shooting of Markeis McGlockton outside a Clearwater convenience store, speaks with 10News Anchor Reginald Roundtree from the Pinellas County Jail in Florida. The case reignited a nationwide debate over Florida's "stand your ground law:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyG9YnvkwI4

Excerpts from “FULL TRANSCRIPT: Michael Drejka's jailhouse interview with 10News' Reginald Roundtree,” https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local ... -589858522:
10News Staff on August 31, 2018 wrote:Drejka: No, there’s almost no way that uhm, number one, my upbringing, really, prevents that from coming out of me ever, uh – my parents weren’t that way. You know, it was always try to get along with everybody, green eggs and ham, you know. Everybody’s different and I grew up during desegregation, not segregation. Ok, so it’s not like, uh, you know, I was sheltered from other cultures or races, you know, from a very young age.

Uh, and my professionalism beyond that prevents me from saying stuff like that anyway. . . .


Roundtree: But you also strike me as a person that, that might get angry.

Drejka: Everybody’s got a temper, I suppose. . . .

Roundtree: I mean, I thought to myself when I first got ahold of this case I said there’s something about, I mean, there’s got to be family or someone involved that this is a hot button for you. Everybody’s got hot buttons, but this one is certainly one for you, and uh, it’s almost like you, you just, just something that you can not stand happen in front of you.

Drejka: Well, no, of course not. And I don’t usually confront people about it either. And such as, was in this case, I did not confront anyone, I was confronted and I answered. Which is, how I think the argument started between, uh, the woman and I.

Roundtree: That push, that shove, did it stun you?

Drejka: Didn’t know it was a shove. Thought I was tackled. It felt like I was tackled or someone hit me from behind with something. I left my feet, slid along the ground, before I was able to – yes, I was stunned, yeah. [wide eyes, nodding head]

There’s – it seems a little more than that, but uhm, stunned is a good word I suppose.


Roundtree: Here’s the 54-million dollar question, cuz no one else was there, but you [Drejka nods] were you in fear for your life?

Drejka: Yes sir. It was only one other person that was making a move and that move was towards me – and, coming off of a – what I just got up to – I was, uh, I didn’t know what was coming for me and there’s only one way to look at that. You have to be scared for it, cuz if you’re not, [deep breath] you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And that’s that.

So yeah, I was very scared, I’ve never been confronted like that, or never been assaulted like that if you will, ever. You know, I’m not a physical person to begin with, I don’t wrestle with people, I don’t, uh, push and shove with my friends, there’s none of that that goes on in my life, so I’m a very hands-off type of person.
. . .

Roundtree: I’ll just ask you one last question just to clear up, to clear up the uhm, I was talking about some of the previous, uh, events or altercations, which you never were arrested or charged with anything. One of those – uhm, involved at the store. Uh, the guy driving the supply truck where he claimed that you used the ‘N’ word against him and that’s why people are thinking this might be racially motivated. Please clear this up, are you racist or not?

[Drejka shakes his head]

Drejka: No sir. Uhm, not by any means. Uh, I’ve worked with too many people, met too many people in my life to be that kind of person. There’s, there’s no way to survive really, by being like that. It doesn’t help anyone, you know, and to have a, that kind of feeling about an entire race of people seems foreign to me. Why, how could that happen? But uh, as far as the incident with the gentleman there, uh, and that claim, I, the claim is totally false. Uh, uh, I wouldn’t have used that word, especially while confronting someone about something like that. You know, he had the name of his company on the side of the truck and uh, he was an easy target, you know, for my pet peeve that day, so uh, why would I mess that up by uh, throwing that word in, you know? It doesn’t make sense to me other than wanting spotlight for himself or wanting to turn people against me as it is.
Last edited by marvin8 on Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:05 pm

Drejka is found guilty of manslaughter on 8/23/19.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7S-J8Y61s

Excerpt from Michael Drejka found guilty of fatally shooting unarmed man outside convenience store over parking spot in 2018:
WFTS Digital Staff on 10:41 PM, Aug 23, 2019 wrote:CLEARWATER, Fla. — Michael Drejka was found guilty of fatally shooting Markeis McGlockton over a handicapped parking spot outside a Clearwater convenience store in July of 2018.

The 6-person jury deliberated for over six hours before convicting Drejka, 48, on Friday. He was found guilty on manslaughter charges.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby grzegorz on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:21 pm

Change is slow but coming.

Good to see the cops are slowly being held accountable too.
Last edited by grzegorz on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6588
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Tuck Frump

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 pm

marvin8 wrote:Drejka is found guilty of manslaughter on 8/23/19.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7S-J8Y61s

Excerpt from Michael Drejka found guilty of fatally shooting unarmed man outside convenience store over parking spot in 2018:
WFTS Digital Staff on 10:41 PM, Aug 23, 2019 wrote:CLEARWATER, Fla. — Michael Drejka was found guilty of fatally shooting Markeis McGlockton over a handicapped parking spot outside a Clearwater convenience store in July of 2018.

The 6-person jury deliberated for over six hours before convicting Drejka, 48, on Friday. He was found guilty on manslaughter charges.


In Florida shooting somebody during the commission of a crime is a mandatory minimum 25 years to life sentence.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1977
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby everything on Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:20 am

someone shoves you so you shoot him. this doesn't seem ok under any law, religion, ethics, etc. "justice" is served in a senseless incident of stupidity from all sides.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 5198
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:45 am

everything wrote:someone shoves you so you shoot him. this doesn't seem ok under any law, religion, ethics, etc. "justice" is served in a senseless incident of stupidity from all sides.

It depends. If a person shoves you then moves towards you while threatening "imminent death or great bodily harm," it is ok for you to shoot him under self defense laws.

However, it was not ok (manslaughter) when Drejka shot McGlockton after he gave up any threat by backing and turning away—which was proven by the video and autopsy (showing the bullet trajectory). If Drejka shot McGlockton before he moved away, likely results are a mistrial or not guilty. Drejka shot too late.

The law asks, "Would a reasonable man (not Drejka) believe he is in danger of 'imminent death or great bodily harm?'” It's not what Drejka believed or says he believed. He could be lying. In a police interview, Drejka stated McGlockton moved towards him, which was contradicted by the evidence. He also said if someone just stood there or backed away, he would not shoot them. IOW, he would not feel in danger of "imminent death or great bodily harm."

McGlockton takes 4 steps back and turns away (giving up any threat), after Drejka pulls out his gun:

Image
Last edited by marvin8 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby everything on Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:41 pm

I personally agree with the jury. I can see how he may have felt threatened, but the bottom line is a shove vs. a kill shot.

Neither one should be done, but way on a tangent, here is another reason why some people (most people) need to play a lot more sports where they handle a lot of bodily contact and shoves and then realize it's nothing. Definitely no reason to go around killing people. Same thing with stupid drivers and parkers.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 5198
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:36 pm

It's not simply a matter of fear. The reason incidents like this go to a jury is to determine whether they think the fear was reasonable under the law, and justified killing someone. There was a video, and they made a decision that the fear he had at that point didn't justify shooting. He was charged with manslaughter, not second degree murder, because they didn't think that he (unlawfully) killed someone intentionally (but with no planning).

I don't know if they addressed or were allowed to consider why the shove took place. But, I think most people would agree that just shoving someone isn't justification for killing him. I.e., there are loads of circumstances where it would be justified. What if the guy had pulled a knife? Otoh, what if he had just smacked him? That's why there are juries.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
User avatar
Steve James
Great Old One
 
Posts: 18595
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:20 am

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:43 pm

everything wrote:I personally agree with the jury.

So would most reasonable people. Even Drejka agreed with the jury that shooting someone who is retreating is unjustified. In the police interview, Drejka justified his shooting by stating McGlocklin was "taking steps towards me" rather than retreating—which the evidence (e.g., video, autopsy, witnesses) disproved.

In this police interview, Drejka states he pulls his gun out and lies back (which contradicts his position in the video), then McGlockton takes steps towards him. He says he wouldn’t have shot if McGlockton wasn’t coming towards him or standing still. He says he didn’t see McGlockton’s face or hands, but maybe saw his legs. The video, autopsy and witnesses contradict his statements, as it shows Drejka sitting up, aiming the gun upwards and perfectly shooting McGlockton near his heart:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WxLM0bBIAI

everything wrote:I can see how he may have felt threatened, but the bottom line is a shove vs. a kill shot.

The bottom line is a shove ≠ threat of "imminent death or great bodily harm." Therefore, a shove by itself does not justify killing someone.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:02 pm

Steve James wrote:I don't know if they addressed or were allowed to consider why the shove took place.

Defense said McGlockin's shoving is against the law. Prosecution said it is not because McGlocklin was defending his family. Regardless, what happened after the push is more important (e.g., retreated or advanced).

Steve James wrote:But, I think most people would agree that just shoving someone isn't justification for killing him. I.e., there are loads of circumstances where it would be justified.

Per Florida law:
The 2019 Florida Statutes wrote:A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.


Steve James wrote:What if the guy had pulled a knife? Otoh, what if he had just smacked him?

Either action may result in a mistrial or not guilty. The defense brought an expert witness to the stand to argue the "Tueller 21-Foot Rule." But, the prosecution stated it was not relevant.
Because, McGlocklin did not wield a knife and retreated. McGlocklin's retreating made the jury's decision easier.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:41 pm

Drejka was also found guilty because according to the stand your ground law you can't cause a dispute and then claim stand your ground which is also why Zimmerman should be in jail.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6588
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Tuck Frump

PreviousNext

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests