'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

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Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:36 pm

grzegorz wrote:Drejka was also found guilty because according to the stand your ground law you can't cause a dispute and then claim stand your ground which is also why Zimmerman should be in jail.

It can be argued that Drejka was not the instigator, but McGlockton was. Under SYG, Drejka did not have the duty to retreat. Pinellas County Sheriff did not arrest Drejka, stating SYG precluded him from doing so.

However, Drejka was found guilty because he did not prove self defense in his manslaughter case brought by the State Attorney’s Office, not because of SYG.

Excerpts from "In latest ‘stand your ground’ case, a question: Who started it?"
Kathryn Varn on August 3 2018 wrote:Florida law does have a provision that says in part that someone cannot assert a "stand your ground" defense if the person "initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself."

. . . But whether that part of the law comes into play in this case is iffy. According to legal experts, it generally doesn’t apply when the confrontation is just verbal, barring any threats of violence.

"Initiation of conduct that’s offensive, annoying, sticking your nose into somebody else’s business — those actions don’t preclude stand your ground protection from the person that did it," said Clearwater defense attorney Stephen Romine.

Or, in the words of Stetson University College of Law professor Charles Rose: "The law is set up to allow you to be as big an ass as you want to be, as long as it’s just with words."

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri, who has said the stand your ground law precludes his agency from arresting Drejka, has taken a similar stance. At a recent news conference, the sheriff, who is a lawyer, said what was "merely a discussion about why she’s parked there … didn’t provoke the attack." His agency has forwarded the case to the Pinellas-Pasco State Attorney’s Office to decide whether to press charges.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby grzegorz on Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:05 pm

Interesting and thanks.

I am glad this fool is in jail either way.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby meeks on Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:36 am

One of the other issues that arise is the bravado people assume when they carry a weapon. Right now, many of the posts on this thread have been "so and so shouldn't have messed with the guy carrying a gun" (Zimmerman case, etc..)

What no one seems to be addressing is the fact that many people will do things out of character BECAUSE they have a gun. Do you think Zimmerman would have been less likely to have the vigilante attitude if he wasn't carrying a gun? Maybe, maybe not. But it's possible he'd have simply phoned the police rather than thinking "I got this". Same for the asshat arguing over a handicapped parking spot. Maybe he would have simply grumbled about it as he walked past them, the way most people do, rather than think "I got this"... but maybe not. I think it's safe to say that if he was unarmed he would not have stayed on his knees and pointed his finger at the girl's boyfriend and continued his barrage of insults... he'd have shut the hell up because someone was calling him in his display of bravado.

Stand your ground is not about 'my ego were hurt'. Someone knocking on your door is not a threat to your life. Someone pushing you away from their girlfriend, causing you to lose your balance is not a threat to your life. All too often I see these videos where someone 'stood their ground' and shot a victim that was passive and/or backing away from them. Like cops shooting a guy laying face down on the ground. Or someone jacks a truck and a passerby on the sidewalk unloads their gun at the truck only to shoot the truck owner's wife who was still sitting in the passenger side. Stand your ground continues to prove it is a BS law that emboldens people to do dangerous shit that gets people killed for no good reason.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:34 am

Same for the asshat arguing over a handicapped parking spot. Maybe he would have simply grumbled about it as he walked past them, the way most people do, rather than think "I got this"... but maybe not. I think it's safe to say that if he was unarmed he would not have stayed on his knees and pointed his finger at the girl's boyfriend and continued his barrage of insults... he'd have shut the hell up because someone was calling him in his display of bravado.


What I remember from the coverage at the time was that this asshole actually had a hard-on for harassing people about using the handicapped spot and would hang out on the property specifically to catch people doing it and confront them.

And now we know that he was doing it while armed. It was simply a matter of time before he picked the wrong one and shit escalated.

You ask me, him and others like him are dreaming about having an excuse to use their weapon.
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Re: 'Stand your ground' law, Edit: Drejka Found Guilty 8/23/19

Postby marvin8 on Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:52 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
meeks wrote: Same for the asshat arguing over a handicapped parking spot. Maybe he would have simply grumbled about it as he walked past them, the way most people do, rather than think "I got this"... but maybe not. I think it's safe to say that if he was unarmed he would not have stayed on his knees and pointed his finger at the girl's boyfriend and continued his barrage of insults... he'd have shut the hell up because someone was calling him in his display of bravado.


What I remember from the coverage at the time was that this asshole actually had a hard-on for harassing people about using the handicapped spot and would hang out on the property specifically to catch people doing it and confront them.

Correct, grzegorz posted 3 incidents of which one was over the same handicap spot. That truck driver testified at trial for the prosecution.

In the police interview, the police asked Drejka if he thought about people getting upset when he approaches them about the handicap spot. Drejka says "sure" that's why he "takes precautions" by carrying a gun. Then, they asked if he would approach people without "taking these precautions." Drejka said he doesn't know . . . "I'd have to say yes." The prosecution submitted to the jury that Drejka was a vigilante given his actions.

meeks wrote:Stand your ground is not about 'my ego were hurt'. Someone knocking on your door is not a threat to your life. Someone pushing you away from their girlfriend, causing you to lose your balance is not a threat to your life. All too often I see these videos where someone 'stood their ground' and shot a victim that was passive and/or backing away from them. Like cops shooting a guy laying face down on the ground. Or someone jacks a truck and a passerby on the sidewalk unloads their gun at the truck only to shoot the truck owner's wife who was still sitting in the passenger side. Stand your ground continues to prove it is a BS law that emboldens people to do dangerous shit that gets people killed for no good reason.

Drejka's invoking SYG precluded the County Sheriff from arresting him. Once the State Attorney's Office filed manslaughter charges, Drejka’s attorneys could have filed a motion to dismiss the charge based on SYG immunity. If the judge were to grant the motion to dismiss, there would be no trial and Drejka would be free, never having spent a day in jail. Instead, his attorneys just claimed self defense.

Someone shoving you and retreating is not a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm. Someone shoving you, then standing still or advancing may be. The video showed McGlockton retreated despite Drejka's statements.

In the police interview, Drejka states he would not shoot someone retreating or standing still. IOW, he would not feel threatened:
GM: What happens if I told you that I looked at the video and at no point does he come running towards you? He actually takes a step back.

MD: I would disagree.

GM: Okay. I’m just asking. Okay.

MD: Yeah, I would disagree in a heartbeat.

GM: What happens if he — if he didn’t come towards you, would you still have — fired a round?

MD: "Hell no,"

MD: There's no reason to. If he was retreating, I don't need to use my firearm.

GM: What if he’s just standing still?

MD: I still don't need to use my firearm.

(Prosecution: The defendant himself tells you it's manslaughter.)
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