the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

this is OTT sorta, because it's a soccer kicking question. the same principle should still work in MA.

to kick a ball harder for a shot, if you extend your other arm out kind of diagonal and up, it helps a lot. so if I want to kick with my right foot, I stick my left arm out. then as your right leg comes forward, your left arm comes in. makes sense right? like left jab sets up right cross for power.

now ... I just watched some video that added to that. so let's say your left thumb is pointing in toward your body. if you rotate your arm so that your left thumb now points out, so your palm would be face up, then kick, that makes it even easier to add a little more power. I tried it out and anecdotally, yup. the extra little rotation, kind of wind up, then unwind, makes it all a little easier/better. I'm sure there are many more details when, say, a pitcher pitches a baseball.

my question: how does this work?

TL;DR: twist left arm outward, helps your right kick add power. how?

I don't know about the rotation aspect, but I think in general you're talking about balancing forces in the body -

For example, in the classic MT kick the right foot goes forward as the right arm goes back as a counterweight and the left arm goes slightly out. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPC8Xj_sVJM

Pulling the right arm back really gives a lot more power.

Mainly I think it's to do with the body being more on balance that way, but on a deeper level I think it's also to do with the way power flows in the body - the Muscle-tendon channels going from the right toes to the right fingers being stretched more that way when you deliver the kick - you are coordinating the 3 external harmonies - the hips and shoulders/ the knees and elbows and the wrists and ankles - in delivery of power.

Of course, there's pros and cons to moving the arm away from your face:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvoh0o-UWpE

Right arm back when right leg goes forward as when naturally walking. As if a kick would be a quick powerful step forward...But the arm rotation I don’t know, when I sit here writing I try to get the feel of that and it would seem that palm down or back’ish would at least give the feel of better stability....I will try it out whenever I get something to kick on

There are so many variables that it takes a brain to coordinate them all (:)), and in the background. So, afa how the rotation of an arm affects a kick, I'd say that it's like riding bike; it can be described, but the body has to do it without thinking. Ironically, when that happens, the form often looks similar. I.e., watch Messi, Pogba, or Ronaldo kick.

The rotation helps to activate the serratus, obliques, and pectorals, which in turn help with forward flexion of the spine. It's the forward flexion of the body that adds power to the kick.

Yeah the arm with no rotation is like the thai kick example (but in the MA application there are downsides to the arm movement that have to be factored in). I assume the rotation/spiral part must come from some MA or MAs.

For the rotating part, Pavel Tastsouline talks about this as well for doing push-ups in one of his books. If you "pull" yourself down with imaginary spirals, then push yourself up with some spiral, you seem to harness more strength, even if the outward motion has no visible twisting. Maybe this is part of "internal" but I think rotation and spiral is in a lot of normal sports moves. Like boxing cross?

I just didn't come across this tip before (I think it's not really known in football/soccer). That and it's a supporting limb doing the motion, which is a little different than a punch or push up incorporating a spiral.

Would be interesting if you experimented on a bag and see if you subjectively notice the same thing or not.

Bhassler wrote:The rotation helps to activate the serratus, obliques, and pectorals, which in turn help with forward flexion of the spine. It's the forward flexion of the body that adds power to the kick.

ok thanks. I can feel the easier (almost "effortless") power by raising up my arm and giving all of my torso that bit of stretch reflex before the motion. but the rotation really seems to make it that much more effortless.

it's hard to believe (but not really) that my (not that coordinated or strong) left arm is that useful, hahaha.