The Saudi Embassy affair

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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:56 am

Peacedog wrote:Khashoggi was a bad guy who had a bad end.

The fact that he was an Islamist means by definition he was a bad guy. This was an individual who was attempting to use a democratic process to establish a pan-Arab theocracy.

He wasn't a journalist. He was a propagandist using the Western media to spread his message. His experience in journalism consisted of working for various Arab state owned media until they got tired of him and fired him. He was also the point man for conservative clerics within Saudi Arabia that bin Salman had been jailing in an attempt to modernize the country.

The only reason the Turks are complaining is that Erdogan is trying to accomplish in Turkey what Khashoggi wanted in the Arab world. Erdogan is quoted as having said, "Democracy is like a tram ride: when you reach your stop, you get off." (Mayor of Istanbul in 1996, Date: July 14th. 1996, Reporter: Nilgun Cerrahoglu, Newspaper: Milliyet)

That was Khashoggi's goal as well.

He was a bad guy doing bad things. Finally, someone got tired of him and got rid of him. End of story.


You demonize the Saudis and demonize Khashoggi. We are essentially saying the same thing. But I don't blame the reporter for doing his job I blame people in power who have all the power. Sounds like you have no issue with a government killing its own citizens, cutting off their fingers and beheading them while their fiancee waits outside, I do.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:15 am

Another angle.

Image

So if Trump does come out against the Saudis after an investigation are the Trump supporters here going to switch talking points?

Or do they just take the original talking points and run with them?
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby yeniseri on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:45 am

Steve James wrote:
This was an individual who was attempting to use a democratic process to establish a pan-Arab theocracy.


Was that democratic process the press or free speech? But, hey, I feel the same way about neo-nazis, fascists, and their supporters.

I never heard the name Khashoggi before this. Labeling him as anything, no matter how many times it's repeated, does not move me, and certainly doesn't persuade me. Saudi Arabia is the exact opposite of a democracy. It is completely totalitarian, and fundamentally Islamic.

Afa a pan-Arab theocracy, the Saudi kingdom's and the US's greatest threat is Iran, which is not Arab. Pakistan is not Arab, etc. If Khashoggi wanted Muslim world domination, ok, no better than fascists or nazis. The Saudis can do with them as they will.


Adnan Khashogg1 was an arms dealer for the Saudi government and Jamal was his nephew. They are intertwined with the al-Fayed family through marriage. Jamal Khasshogi was hedging his bets that things would change but he failed miserably, like all those who go against the Saudi edicts. If they cannot be blackmailed then there is only one end ;D Democracy is a bad mutha, whether voted on or for, or dictated by royalty of one kind or another. Luckily women can drive in US of A ;D
And yes, I am alluding to this in USA
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:42 pm

Where's your proof? I have read on right wing websites that his uncle was involved in Iran Contra (which is how the US broke Central America) but not Khashoggi himself.

Besides, what gives a government the right to kill their own citizens?

Would you accept the US doing this?

If not why would you accept any other country doing this with US backing?
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby wiesiek on Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:40 am

using way of deduction,
I even tend to believe in Saudi version of >accident during the quarrel <. -whiteflag-
`cause
Meth type of drugs, are very popular in "Arabsword" what connected with their character may produce " gun powder barrels on two legs" -blah-
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:56 am

Speaking of Trump derangement syndrome, did you hear about this guy living in a van?

That's the real Trump derangement syndrome.

Image
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:09 pm

Interesting that Nikki Haley resigned from the UN within 24 hours of this.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby grzegorz on Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:19 am

Rand Paul speaks up.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby Peacedog on Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:44 am

Florida man is an iconic meme. You should look up Florida and monkey herpes.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby yeniseri on Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:09 am

Integration in the Muslim world is difficult but it is interesting that Khasoghi, despite being part of the Arab collective (being Muslim-arabiyyah), his Turkish rootshave hit a nerve.

So in the greater realm, we have Turkey and Iran, at odds with Saudi worldview, despite hugging the face of fanaticism in the use of their own respective ideology, wholly against a Western view of how things should work. The same 'enemy of mine enemy is my friend until the twain shall never meet ;D
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:33 pm

grzegorz wrote:Rand Paul speaks up.


And Marco Rubio, and Lindsay Grahamm
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby Bao on Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:42 pm

...
Last edited by Bao on Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby windwalker on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:24 pm

Bao wrote:
...But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.... :-\


Good you're not surprised so what would you do or suggest doing or actions taken, to another country for killing one of its own citizens on foreign soil.

As far as selling weaponry it's called free market, extended to those that are considered allies.

Business is good.

"

Peace-loving Sweden and Switzerland are among top arms exporters per capita in the world

Sweden has become more inclined to arm regimes accused of human rights abuses, including Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan, as demand from Western nations has declined since the Cold War ended."

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-05-23/ ... pita-world

Free market, when others step out, someone is always there to step in....
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:16 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:33 pm

Hypocrisy is when people act contrary to their stated principles. It is true that Americans are hypocritical. It's true that politicians are selective in their outrage. They should condemn the Saudis for the war in Yemen. That doesn't mean they shouldn't condemn the Khashoggi murder. Nor does their condemnation mean cutting ties with the kingdom. Saudi Arabia needs the US. Btw, the region is not less peaceful now.

The only question is what the US should do if acting on principle. Some would argue that American principles are what make the country exceptional. It's what legitimized invading some countries and supporting others. Anyway, it's ordinary actions have certainly created almost all of our enemies. Sadam, the Ayatollas, Osama. Shucks, today we may have some allies, but no friends. The latter is the work of the current administration.

Now, if we were getting free oil, that'd be different. At some point, the Saudi sheiks might change. What then?
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Re: The Saudi Embassy affair

Postby windwalker on Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:44 pm

Understand what hypocracy is

"
Swedes see themselves as very ethical and restrictive when it comes to giving human rights violators or dictators things that help them stay in power.

But the reality is that has happened," said Siemon Wezeman, an arms expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)."

Was wondering if they will be cutting their sales back
In protest.

Maybe not.

"the jobs issue is quite big. People care more about local jobs than about what we do in Saudi," he added.

Some 30,000 people are employed in the Swedish defence industry, many of them in towns where arms factories are the largest private sector employer."
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/peace-l ... oar-562866
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