Be careful what you say

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Be careful what you say

Postby KEND on Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:48 pm

A controversial subject. Does the rhetoric of public figures incite violence. The question that will be debated endlessly in the wake of the pipe bombs mailed to prominent people. The WH has tacitly encouraged violence, the comments on the assault of a journalist at a trump rally and other incidents may have triggered the emergence of violent mentally ill people. The violence seems to be more the province of the right nowadays. In the old days there was the Panthers, JDL, SDS, Symbio army, Yippies, animal rights etc, nowadays the anti abortion, resurgent KKK, anti feminists, other racist groups and anyone having a beef with the government are appearing
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby everything on Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:51 pm

well...

1. there needs to be freedom of speech otherwise you get those regimes who "disappear" or murder journalists.
2. words and hate speech do matter, especially for politicians. just look at how riled up people get on this internet forum about stupid, stupid shit. "why don't you come to my dojo" blah blah bblah.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:09 pm

Well, afa bombings, the Black Panthers never bombed anything. Now, the Weathermen, the PDL (Puerto Rican Independence), and the KKK all had members who used bombs to promote/assert their political or social views. Tim McVeigh in the 90s is another example. The American Indian Movement, the gay rights movement, the women's lib movement, etc, none did any bombings. Now, "pro-life" supporters have bombed women's health care centers and assassinated doctors. So, no, bombings by left-wingers, leftists, or liberals has never been a thing in the US. Associating political violence (and bombings) with a political pov may be possible, if not helpful, but it isn't possible to say that political violence by the "Right" is new or unusual.

Afa the issue of political speech (or speech by politicians) inciting violence, I'd say it's a bit like claiming that horror movies or rap videos incite murder. They don't. However, the problem is when politicians and political spokesmen condone, excuse, or don't condemn violence. Then, the people who are inclined think they're doing something that's acceptable, excusable, even pardonable. I mean, Hillary (or fill in the blank) is an evil person who deserves to be punished.

Does Trump, specifically, incite violence. Well, I think most of his supporters would support his calls for anything. Of course, Trump could give a high-five to the politician who body slammed a reporter for a question. If someone said that Trump deserved the same treatment, he or she would be investigated. At any rate, Trump has to be distinguished from many of his supporters. They'll support what they will regardless of him. What might "incite" them would be his support. If he says that bombing CNN or the media is okay, some of his supporters will go for it. The problem is that he doesn't realize it. That is, unless he really wants it, and I don't think so. He knows that he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave. He doesn't realize that there can only be escalation.

Whether he incites it or not, he has the power to lessen it.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:17 pm

Just another right wing terrorist.
They oughta make a hat.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby windwalker on Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:24 pm

oragami_itto wrote:Just another right wing terrorist.
They oughta make a hat.


guess you missed the shooting that happened about a yr or so ago. right?
Along with all the other stuff happening promoted by the left, progressive, choose your label.
All without much if any condemnation......

Trump, and team trump has been vilified along with those who seek change and find it
in his policies...

this has been going on from day one by both sides not expecting the silent majority to speak up through the election process.
Interesting point is that many of the changes where promoted by the "dems" until they were found not be popular anymore, or when team trump promotes the same changes almost using the same verbiage..
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:13 pm

Origami called him a right wing terrorist. I'm sure there'll be a list of left-wing bombings soon to follow. But, I'm trying to figure out what you're saying here has anything to do with what happened.

this has been going on from day one by both sides not expecting the silent majority to speak up through the election process.
Interesting point is that many of the changes where promoted by the "dems" until they were found not be popular anymore, or when team trump promotes the same changes almost using the same verbiage..


:) No idea what you are talking about or were thinking. However, it has nothing to do with mailing devices to people who criticize Trump. You could point to people mailing anthrax to the Trump family.

Anyway, yeah, people have been violent to people since the start of this country --or of the world. Nothing to see here. Just don't start talking about how violent the "other" side and others are. And, Trump is the politician who congratulates people for being violent. He's done it since the beginning of his campaign. Remember? He likes the "old days" when people at his rallies punched protesters. He's the only politician who's said he could kill someone and get away with it. His supporters say "that's just his style." It does say more about them than him.

But, all he has to do is talk abut the violent people on his side the same way he talks about terrorists and immigrants. Threaten their wives and children. Call them what they are.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby windwalker on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:34 pm

Steve James wrote:
His supporters say "that's just his style." It does say more about them than him .


actually it says more about those who like yourself seem to only focus on one aspect of a topic. Who seem to like rhetoric over actions or results.

No need to post anything that happened within the last 8 years as it's either ignored or not even commented on.

those you labeled as supporters may have also supported Obama before it became very apparent of what he was trying to do . Understanding this they sought change, freethinkers able to discern actions over rhetoric.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby windwalker on Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:37 pm

KEND wrote:A controversial subject. Does the rhetoric of public figures incite violence. The question that will be debated endlessly in the wake of the pipe bombs mailed to prominent people. The WH has tacitly encouraged violence, the comments on the assault of a journalist at a trump rally and other incidents may have triggered the emergence of violent mentally ill people. The violence seems to be more the province of the right nowadays. In the old days there was the Panthers, JDL, SDS, Symbio army, Yippies, animal rights etc, nowadays the anti abortion, resurgent KKK, anti feminists, other racist groups and anyone having a beef with the government are appearing



Let's see you mentioned journalist I wonder.

Michael Hastings
Richard Silverstein
Stephen Kim
James Rosen

might want to look up what happened to each of them....

"Over the past eight years, the administration has prosecuted nine cases involving whistle-blowers and leakers, compared with only three by all previous administrations combined.

It has repeatedly used the Espionage Act, a relic of World War I-era red-baiting, not to prosecute spies but to go after government officials who talked to journalists."

Must be the smile and rhetoric he uses. Maybe team Trump needs to work on this a little bit
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:14 pm

actually it says more about those who like yourself seem to only focus on one aspect of a topic. Who seem to like rhetoric over actions or results.


You mean the actions or results of mailing bombs to people we disagree with? Hmm, there aren't two sides of this issue. The guy was wrong. He's a terrorist, even if the bombs weren't live.

Afa liking rhetoric, in fact, I thought I was complaining about violent rhetoric. I didn't even blame Trump. He doesn't know what he's doing.

those you labeled as supporters may have also supported Obama before it became very apparent of what he was trying to do


I'm not labeling anyone. Trump's supporters self-define themselves by supporting Trump. This new political correctness is interesting. You can't call a Trump supporter a Trump supporter. I specifically referred to "some" of them. The guy in Florida is a Trump supporter. Of course, some other Trump supporters don't want to be associated with him, or with the neo-nazis, kkkers, etc., who support him.

Nope, different people support Trump for different reasons. Very few of them will try to bomb or shoot anyone because he or she disagrees. Some will. But, not because they're Trump supporters. If the problem is political rhetoric on both sides, then guess who should chill out first? Who should be the first advocate for civil speech and action? However, as you've pointed out. That's his style.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:00 pm

Already with the whataboutisms. What a horse's ass--as usual.

I am already seeing claims of fake news. But even that is not as bad as the state of denial on display here. The link between calls for violence and violence or threats of violence couldn't be more clear...Well, I am worried that they will become so, especially given this sort of standard response. There is a real sickness in our country.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Trick on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:57 pm

I believe everything is orchestrated from “higher up” where there’s no right or left. But the higher up’s want the lower downs to have the right and left - divide and conquer - more violence, install more control
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Steve James on Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:41 am

You're right about that. It's the oldest game in the USA. Divide and rule.
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby jimmy on Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:27 am

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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby Steve James on Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:17 pm

I would have put this in political jokes only, but it's not really a joke. If he never said these things, I apologize in advance. And, it's neither fake news, libel, slander or misrepresentation.

img]https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43745662_10156717213480699_6372490625442381824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=095dbe4daef2a1fd93ee6ef831f58cb1&oe=5C83DF3C[/img]
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Re: Be careful what you say

Postby KEND on Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:08 am

Latest shooter in Pittsburgh wore a trump hat.I forgot the boston bombers who I guess could be labelled left wingers. Agreed anything can set off a psycho but a general atmosphere of permissiveness when it comes to hate speech certainly appears to contribute
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