What kind of diet are you following?

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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Peacedog on Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:53 am

I think carb cycling works for a lot of people. I also think the discipline required is substantial.


A cheat weekend might work for people who don't have much of a carbohydrate metabolism issue. You'd just need to experiement. And maintain the diet during the rest of the week.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Peacedog on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:00 am

D_Glenn that's a good study. Thanks.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:07 pm

Interesting thread.

Found this clip,,,touches on some the things mentioned, the how and why..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby D_Glenn on Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:49 am

Here’s a heart surgeon who is an advocate of lchf and goes into some information about cholesterol:
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby klonk on Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:31 pm

I have watched several of Dr. Fung's videos. I think it's quite ingenious to focus on the insulin-glucose-fat axis of the problem and then conclude that fasting is all right, has beneficial uses and deserves more attention as a healthy practice. Eating little or nothing drops insulin production and glucose sequestration as fat, little or nothing to sequester; he has good evidence for that, so hey, why not fast?

Why not comes down to the question of comfort. My own experience of keto dieting (and I know better than to generalize my experience to apply to everyone, but at least some other people report similar things) is that my appetite is very much reduced after avoiding carbs for a week or two. Some people doing the keto diet find they have to force up their caloric intake with "fat bombs" just to break even.

The discomfort of cutting down on carbs is very much reduced by getting plenty of water and electrolytes, and not being too much of an extremist in your carb cutting. I am wondering if (for me) a better answer than keto is to go with moderate low-carb eating and use the reduced appetite aspect as a gateway to fasting as needed.

Wait, didn't Peacedog already say something on those lines? ???

:D
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Found interesting the resetting of the metabolism set point, and how different approaches effect it. The feed back loop for how the body maintains it seems very clear.

.he talked about what happens to muscle during the process as the body switches to using different energy reserve systems. Was always under the impression that the muscle would also be metabolized as the body needed it.

The problem as he noted is the ease and availability of food, and life habits based on this..

Hard to change, understanding the process makes it a little easier.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Franklin on Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:47 pm

Keto diet seems to be the new fad thing --
(as in it seems to be super popular right now)

this is an interesting series of videos
from Tim Noakes
when he was put on trial in south africa.. he sort of turned it into a platform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OT_S6f ... 100niaaJDX

from what i have read about the trial it was pretty interesting from the standpoint of
how medicine works... (organized medicine.. and what they promote)
why they were going after him and the result after he hit them with the science... hahahaha


I know some people that follow keto- and they seem to like it
the people I know into keto said- there is a percentage of people who do not do well on the diet..
and that it is also important to get your blood checked regularly
it is easy to thow your electrolytes out of balance -- and you have to ensure you are not creating any micronutrient or vitamin deficiencies..


from what i understand Jason Fung is real big with the people I know who follow keto


Mark Sission
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/
from what I understand - talks about a more moderate (flexible) way of eating
where the carb intake can vary depending on certain things
(its not strict keto)

and I have mentioned maffetone on the forum before
https://philmaffetone.com/
he also recommends a low carb way of eating
as well as low heart rate training - to build up the health and aerobic system..




Chinese medicine has classification for everything
so depending on your condition - there are foods that can improve your condition or worsen your condition
all based on the taste and temperature classifications of food
(which are different sometimes from what you think they should be-- the classification is more about the actions of the food in the body rather then the local temperature or the taste in your mouth)..
I see a lot of people use this information incorrectly - or not as best as they could..
many people think they will just eat the foods that are helpful for their condition
so they plan a diet with only those foods...
and they almost never succeed in following it for more then a week.. lol
the best way to use this information is to see the overall gist of your diet
and subtract food that is harmful for your condition
and maybe add a little to balance the overall diet to make it more helpful for your condition...
it should be a overall balance type thing
not a strict -- I can only eat this because it is good for the condition i have...

also - because your condition changes -- then the diet will also have to change to suit the new condition...


the most important rules for diet in chinese medicine
1- eat at regular times
the body has an ebb and flow
the body can get used to the regular times of eating
and will prepare to digest at certain times and then can digest the food better
if you throw food in the stomach at random times -- its a bit of a shock.. and the body has the scramble to gte the job done

2- sit down and eat - relax
follows the first one
don't eat on the run
have a time to eat
and focus on that task and be relaxed -
as in don't stress out about other things while eating
and also don't stress out about what you are eating.. (over analyze it.. worry about it)
(this of course assumes that you are eating "good stuff" -- in other words- don't blissfully eat junk -- its still not good - but still probably better then eating junk and stressing out about it)


3- chew your food
digestion starts in the mouth




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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby everything on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:25 pm

Hi Franklin, if you have some more details, would you mind elaborating on the temperature and so on. I like this TCM kind of theory.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Franklin on Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:02 pm

everything wrote:Hi Franklin, if you have some more details, would you mind elaborating on the temperature and so on. I like this TCM kind of theory.


the five flavors correspond to the 5 elements (and the 5 organs)

the 4 temperatures (sometimes 5 if they add neutral)
are cold, cool, warm, hot

they are all about the way the food acts in the body
(not necessarily your subjective experience while eating them - although there are many that are the same)


so the use is according to the 5 element theory
and the temperature - follows the maxim - cool heat conditions and warm cold conditions...

it can be applied superficially or really in depth..
depends on the persons grasp of Chinese medicine, diagnosis, and knowledge of medicated diet (or medicinal diet)


you can google around and find lots of information -- there are also lots of books on this

but honestly -- the best way to use the information as a layperson
is what I wrote before:
the best way to use this information is to see the overall gist of your diet
and subtract food that is harmful for your condition
and maybe add a little to balance the overall diet to make it more helpful for your condition...
it should be a overall balance type thing
not a strict -- I can only eat this because it is good for the condition i have..."


becoming more mindful of what you eat
and how it affects your body/mind/spirit is always a good thing
as long as you don't take it to the extreme...

a classmate of mine mentioned to me that she studied with this guy who wrote one of the "Books" of east/west nutrition
so I asked her what this guy was like.. (at meal times)
the answer I got was that he was a bit neurotic and obsessed
and would deliberate for a long time before deciding what to eat..
to me this would be the wrong approach...


a good first step is to just be mindful of what you eat
most people have an idea (but sometimes their idea is a bit removed form the reality)
so a good first step would be just to write down everything that you eat over a 2 week period...

I think most people after writing down everything they eat for 2 weeks
would be able to take a look...
and have an idea of what can be improved and what can be removed to make it better..
its not rocket science...


there is not a good compliance rate for people who try to drastically change their diet
(unless they are really under the gun with dire consequences)

its best to make small changes...
like if you eat too much junk food -- cut down a bit over time...
you eat out too much (restaurant food is heavy on salt, sugar -- and depending on the restaurant- the sourcing of the ingredients might not be the best -- there are restaurant food wholesalers that supply most places)
try to eat out less...

over time -- some small changes like this can have big effects...

so little by little...



I think the biggest take away from chinese medicine diet theory is:
that no food is the best
all food has properties and actions
and depending on your internal condition
they might benefit you or do the opposite...

so there is no absolute with diet
your needs change as your internal condition changes
and your needs also change with time -- ie- at different stages of your life -- your needs will be different...



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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby cloudz on Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:04 am

One of the best things about using the fasting protocol is that I pretty much eat anything and everything that I like - without overeating. I want to keep protein up, as that's what will keep my muscle level good; fat - sure no problem. Carbs too, but trying to balance them. I don't worry about having some pasta or whatever. You can go down the route of getting the brown variety of bread, pasta and rice for example. Processed / added sugar is the big one to control I guess. So I exercise and I eat some biscuits too! One of the benefit of fasting is that it's much easier to keep to the right level of calorie intake. After a few weeks I even stopped counting. For me it's been the easiest thing to adapt to and stick to. For long term I find it is the best fit - I don't want to worry about having to buy certain things and avoid others, finding recipes, having meal plans and all that. Keto may be great and I know people who rave about it - But I have gotten great results and I can do without the extra hassle and inconvenience of keto. I use a daily supplement as well to keep up a good level of certain vitamins and minerals - like zinc for example.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:43 am

Cloudz,

And that's the thing. For most people diet really isn't an issue. For whatever reason, their metabolism works well enough that simply being moderate with things is more than sufficient to maintain an appropriate body composition. I won't discuss the less than 1% that can walk around eating cake and chocolates all day long and still have less than 10% bodyfat. Everyone hates those guys anyway. :D

The frustrating part is that if someone has a problem, all of the solutions involve restriction and discomfort on some level. And all of them, barring the use of compounds like DNP and to a lesser degree Anavar, are temporary work arounds.

It also dosen't help that people without these issues aren't very understanding of what it is like to have to deal with this crap all the damn time either.

And it isn't all bad news. People with fast burning metabolisms generally aren't very strong. People with slower metabolisms can build strength quickly given the right training protocols. Being able to put on 20 pounds of muscle within 60 days is impressive when done and, without drugs, I've never seen it done in the naturally lean.

It does make the role of discipline important and certainly has health impacts starting in middle age onwards.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby windwalker on Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:54 pm

Agree with cloudz, from what I've read and reading this thread.

Diets and fasting something I've never explored before can anyone explain
the benefits and negatives of each from personal experience briefly.

The fasting seems like it would be more natural, in accordance with the bodies
intake outtake design

Thanks
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby cloudz on Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:06 am

Discipline is key these days - we live in a world were the biggest threats to life are things like obesity and diabetes. Not any more the violence we do to eachother in colourful ways. Those days are long gone - It's hard to believe I know, but we are much nicer to eachother than we were in the past. For years the food industry peddled low fat marketing whilst pumping us full of the crack cocaine of the food world.

One thing I know is trying to control my 4 years old girls sugar intake is a f-king nightmare..
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby everything on Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:17 am

shouldn't be relevant to most of you, but having no gallbladder, I don't think I can do intermittent fasting. that's because the gallbladder stores bile, concentrates it, and releases it on demand. now, however, I probably just have a slow drip feed of less concentrated bile always flowing from liver into digestive system. AFAIK. so maybe "high fat" in tiny quantities all day would be fine for digestion. but not eating for a long time can cause some irritation.

so more or less, the commonality in all these recommended diets is eat a lot of stuff that's good for you, and cut out the processed foods, especially refined sugars.

anyone try the Whole 30 fad diet? except for the no beans thing, it's probably basically marketing crap (like all these stupid diets) wrapped around cutting out dairy, sugars, high GI carbs, alcohol. but the underlying theme seems the same as usual.

also, the dumbass millenials (sorry anyone here) around me are always doing stupid fad diets. lol.
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Re: What kind of diet are you following?

Postby Peacedog on Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:31 am

My experience with the various diets mentioned here...

Keto: felt really tired for the first month. Around week six things got pretty good energy level wise. My waist shrank by about four inches in one month. It really seemed to target inter-abdominal fat. Compliance was fine as long as I lived alone and could control what food was around me. Also, I had to eat at specific times with no variance or my energy levels really started swinging. When living with family forget it. Going out with friends was likewise tough. I only did this for about 2 months. Good to lose weight quickly. Hard to keep up long term.

Intermittent fasting: It only seemed to work for me if I ate once per day. The eating within a window 8/6/4/1 hour didn't really work. Granted my endocrine system is pretty f'ed up so for most people it might not matter so much. And I had to eat at the 24 hour point. If family was dicking around with food prep, my will would break and I'd start eating whatever crap was available. All that said, my brother in law does this two days per week and he lost 30 pounds. And has kept it off for years. Wasen't great for body composition as I never sported a six pack doing this. And I couldn't really train hard as I just couldn't eat enough protein and fat in one setting. Great as I could eat whatever I wanted. It does seem to work well at keeping most people reasonably thin for life.


Low-carb: Worked very well when I could control my environment. Like keto, I HAD to eat at scheduled times. If I didn't do this, I got really cranky and would eventually cheat. Family really screws this up more often than not. Very easy to sport a six pack. I would lose .6 pounds/day for the first 30-40 days. Long term when combined with one cheat day per week this seems to work best for me. Scheduled eating is really important though. As a grad school student with a highly variable schedule it is tough. The good news is that this is much easier to do when going out with friends. Food isn't bad. You live for the cheat day.

Extended fasting for various lengths of time: I've never done this outside a military training or monastic environment. In that context it is easy. There is nothing to eat around me. I would lose a lot of weight pretty quickly. I think I lost 28 pounds in SERE over three weeks. Gained all of it back within weeks. Did make all of my senses much sharper when doing it. Eyesight improved from about 20/70 to 20/20 and stayed that way for a good 18 months. I should experiment more with this, but I never seem to get around to it.

I might add that irregular eating times could play a pretty big role in modern obesity. Anytime I could absolutely control my food environment, to include eating times, losing weight was really easy. As was keeping it off. Family screwing around with eating times, traveling where I couldn't cook for myself, etc. all result in environments where I simply do not lose weight. My energy levels swing a lot in this situation as well.
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